Was Adrian Rogers a Respectful Bible Teacher?

In one word, NO.

The Catholic Catechism respectfully states clearly and correctly the oppositions view: "The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable."

They then proceed to state their positions in their Catechism. There are no fallacies in their reasoning. This is respectful communication.

Adrian Rogers whose own booklet states on the back cover: "..one of the most respected Bible teachers presenting the Good News of Jesus Christ with strong convictions..."

Yet unlike the respectful manner of the RCC Catechism he constructs a straw man argument by creating a distortion of the Reformers' view that he himself can easily refute. He makes the unlearned think that he has destroyed the Reformed position. His congregation believed him and thousands across the face of many nations believed as well.

But is this respectful?

"God did not take a little tender child and say, "I'm going to cast you into hell." "I'm going to harden your heart and then I'm going to cast you into hell" ""I'm going to create a whole stack of vessels and then I'm going to take a rod and break them all?"

Did Adrian Rogers know anything about the reformation views? Did he understand Total Depravity and Original sin as believed by the Reformers?
Couldn't he have called a professor at Mid-America and sought some information about Calvinism?

Or did he knowingly misrepresent the opposing view with the purpose to deceive?

I confess, I don't know. However it's hard to believe that he was that ill-informed.

If he did this with malicious intent should we give him a "mulligan"? He was so nice and good, should we overlook this one 'itty bitty' error? His devoted followers treat Dr. Rogers' successor, Dr. Gaines with disrespect (wonder where they learned that behavior). Why should they overlook this error.

Dr. Rogers overlooked two Reformation principles:
1) Men go to hell for the inherited sin of Adam. He sinned so we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
2) Man's depravity is, as the Catholic understanding of Reformation views, insurmountable.

Oh well, he didn't know this.

Was Dr. Rogers Roman Catholic or Orthodox?

PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE (ROMAN CATHOLIC) CHRISTIAN FAITH

416 By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.
417 Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin".
418 As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called "concupiscence").

406 The Church's teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine's reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam's fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529) and at the Council of Trent (1546).

The 2000 Baptist Faith and Mission
III Man
Through the temptation of Satan man transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original innocence whereby his posterity inherit a nature and an environment inclined toward sin. Therefore, as soon as they are capable of moral action, they become transgressors and are under condemnation. Only the grace of God can bring man into His holy fellowship and enable man to fulfill the creative purpose of God.

Westminister Shorter Catechism
Q. 18. Wherein consists the sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell?
A. The sinfulness of that estate whereinto man fell, consists in the guilt of Adam’s first sin, the want of original righteousness, and the corruption of his whole nature, which is commonly called original sin; together with all actual transgressions which proceed from it.

Q. 19. What is the misery of that estate whereinto man fell?
A. All mankind by their fall lost communion with God, are under his wrath and curse, and so made liable to all the miseries of this life, to death itself, and to the pains of hell forever.

Since Adrian Rogers preached against Reformed Theology (Westminister Catechism) then no other conclusion can be formed than that he was closer to Roman Catholicism than Orthodoxy.

Arminians All Look Alike

Who wrote the following?

"...unconditional election of individuals to eternal life was not taught by the Apostles. God did elect or predestinate, that all those who would be saved, should be saved in Christ Jesus, and through obedience to the Gospel...."
Was it:
1) Dave Hunt
2) Adrian Rogers
3) Benedict XVI
4) Joseph Smith, Jr.
5) Billy Graham

For the answer click on a quiz http://www.aomin.org/index.php?itemid=396

Written in Stone or Flesh?

John 5:39-40 (NASB) "You search the Scripture because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life."

The 1963 BF&M stated that "The criteria by which the Bible is to be interpreted is Jesus Christ" With Adrian Rogers as the chairman of the committee to study the BF&M and bring suggested changes to the 2000 convention the wording changed to: "All scripture is a testimony to Christ who is himself the focus of divine revelation."

Jesus is no longer viewed as God’s supreme revelation, he has been demoted to being merely the “focus” of God’s revelation. Jesus has also been demoted from being the criteria by which the Bible is to be interpreted.

According to Jesus Scripture was held in a very exalted position, it was divine in origin but was never meant to be an end in itself. The purpose of scripture is to lead and point people to Christ.

Now there are people who have a low view of Scripture and do not regard it as the true Word of God. However there are those who hold too 'high' a view of Scripture and worship it rather than Christ. "Bible-worshippers" look to the right interpretation as if they have the Christ the Word says they have. Yet as Christ said, they 'think' they have eternal life. Their hearts remain stony and lifeless. Christ as the ends of Scripture gives life to the dead and causes men to live.

The high view of Scripture held by the Conservative resurgence has influenced the followers of Dr Rogers as reflected by the posters of both pro and anti (Gaines) Bellevue. Rather than reflecting a 'lively heart' they reflect arrogant stony hearts. They have a head knowledge of the Word supposing that they have eternal life.

Tradition of Ruling Princes

1 Corinthians 2:6 (King James Version)
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

Before I start I disclaim any charge that I am seeking to attack Adrian Rogers's Character, person or reputation. He was a man of moral excellence and firmness. I am challenging some of his theology.

In the previous post I referenced Adrian Rogers' theology from the perspective of Jesus' discussions with the Sadducees. In this post I am referencing Jesus' talks with the Pharisees. The Sadducees lacked knowledge of the Scriptures and denied the supernatural power of God in daily affairs. The Pharisees confused tradition with Scripture and thus nullified and made void God's Word.

Like many fiery fundamentalist Adrian Rogers confused tradition of men with the Word of God. This confusion clouds the issue of the Believer's authority. All Churches of assorted variations claim the authority of the Bible as their sole rule for faith and practice. They all claim to be right!

The questions of the rulers in the temple were; "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave you authority to do these things?"

These question are relevant to us today: By what authority do you believe what you believe? By what authority do you claim certain teachings and deny others?

Biblically the princes under the influence of men's traditions participated in the crucifixion of Christ and that tradition has been handed down through the centuries in various man made doctrines. However Adrian Rogers participated in a line of gradual descension from orthodoxy through this century with men like E. Y. Mullins, Herschel Hobbs who along with Dr Rogers chaired the commmittees to formulate the Baptist Faith and Mission, 1925, 1963 and 2000. Pragmatism won out over orthodoxy and the Southern Baptist Convention led the way for an emergent ministry in a postmodern culture. Under the disguise of a conservative resurgence led by Dr. Rogers the SBC became a mega-church oriented convention substituting individual salvation for a mass movement of people groups throughout the World. It was seen as a battle For the Bible but it was for the sake of effective evangelism and opened the door to emergent ministries led by Rick Warren.

Although there is a departure from the influence of Scofield's dispensationalism there are strong cords that bind fundamentalism to traditions that are confused with Scriptures. Scofield declared that his interpretation was "the commandment of the Lord" I Cor 14:36,37 Fundamentalist have adopted his injunctions and interpretations as their own inerrant Scriptures. 1.) Before the New Testament was written inspired prophets and preachers brought new revelation in the context of I Cor 14:29,30 2.) Sign gifts and tongues were used in this primitive community under the restraint of Church leaders. 3.) The primitive assembly had the exercise of Spiritual gifts especially prophecy. 4.) Women were required to keep silent when the Church assembled. This is declared to be the unquestionable Word of God!

The Holy Spirit acted freely in sovereignty. There was no place for self-choosing and Christian service was simply the ministry of such gift as the invidual may have received. After the N.T. was written the Christian message came not from inspired preachers but from mere men preaching inspired Scripture. The activity of the Holy Spirit in the primitive assembly took a back seat to the body of Scripture. This was not what Christ had intended in John 16:12-15.

Adrian Rogers adopted this tradition of man. His views of anti-Calvinism were handed down through John R. Rice's "Predistined for Hell? NO!" to Robert L. Summer and thus we have Dr Rogers' booklet "Predestined for Hell? Absolutely Not!"

Jesus said to the Pharisees: "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men." Mark 15:6-8

The common Bellevue believer, not well versed in theology, believes that Adrian Rogers' authority was anti-Calvinist and anti-Charismatic and Pentecostal and that is the equal to Holy Scriture. No wonder that Bellevue's leadership is Spiritless and relies on natural processes. Dr. Rogers followed the princes of this world that have come to naught.

Super-normal or Supernatural

In 1956 Nicholas Ray produced a movie, Bigger Than Life, about James Mason, a twisted suburbanite addicted to cortisone. He experienced visionary, tyrannical delusions which his wife had to suffer through.

A pessimistic outlook of major mega-churches today is built around a "bigger than life person" who often is the focus of the large complex.

Strangely, these churches are built around the concept of scientific materialism, a form of materialism in which everything can be explained in natural terms or processes. They deny the necessity for God or any kind of supernatural intervention.

The template for this organizational state is found in Mark 12:20-24. Christ addresses the Sadducee's' anti-supernaturalism with the words: "You know neither the scriptures nor the power of God."

A large Church like Bellevue could not be the result of one man's accomplishments, although he may have the dream. Like most churches there are men who have a history of successful vocations outside the church and a history of "ownership" within the church. Perhaps this ownership may involve the donation of material wealth from family past. These men are "kingmakers", they are responsible for the pastor being their pastor. They put together the physical side of the dream the pastor or elders envision. Fundraising, budgeting, material, manpower and physical resources are their jobs.

They provide the physical aspects of the spiritual functions such as preaching, teaching and counseling.

Far the most part in American fundamentalism the glory of the material gets the better of the heavenly splendor. The creative powers of man outshine the miraculous provisions of God. God takes a backseat and is given lip-service.

Christ says you are not just wrong but you "do greatly err". v.27 Wrong about Scripture and the Power of God. Christ had refused the template laid down by Satan's wilderness temptations, he also refused to bow to these influential political leaders in Israel. He spoke boldly to the men who bridged the gap between Rome and Jerusalem. He would not say what they wanted him to say!

I dare say without exception that every mega-pastor today is saying what he is being paid to say! He may proudly boast he speaks for God, yet he dare not offend any of these "kingmakers". They sit and listen to the sermon week after week without an ounce of faith in God but full of man-made confidence and the security that if the pastor errs, he leaves not them.

Now there are disposable people in the hierarchy to be sacrificed and they are dispensed with as gestures of power. The "kingmakers" are immovable.

This is the source of spiritual blasphemy, resistance to the Holy Spirit and the unforgivable insults the men of God heap upon the spirit of Grace. The end product matches the Devil's template. Paul Williams is a product of such a process and Adrian Rogers was taken from this earth prematurely because He would not stand up to these men. Bellevue is experiencing the judgement of the hand of God.

This is not exclusive to Bellevue but is rampant in America. The common man knows big churches are businesses and money is the end product. "To whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

Why Mike Deletes Me

Random order -http://thebrattonreport.blogspot.com/

1) The defense mechanisms of most posters will not allow themselves to deal with the severity of one of their own sodomizing his own son. It just couldn't happen.

2.) They cannot see the Socratic irony in the 17 years of Adrian Rogers' ignorance of Paul Williams' sin. Reasonable people see it.

3.) Mike's refusal to respond to Dr. James White's refutations of Adrian Rogers' Arminianism in his Romans 8 and 9 sermons.

4.) Mike's refusal to respond to Charles Stanley's statement concerning eternal security and explain AR's response to it.

5.) Mike's refusal to respond to the charge that the conservative resurgance was actually AR's push for evangelism and mega-ministries against moderate opposing views.

6.) Mike's lack of defense of my saying that AR was an inconsistent Arminian. He never produced the anology to end all anologies against Calvinism and Arminianism.

7.) Mike's experience at stage productions and media editing aquainted him with AR's Achilles' heel, style over substance and form over function. AR's knowledgeable peers knew it and kept a pragmatic silence better suit for the SBC.

8.) Mike knows that an opponent can be silenced by focusing on style rather than substance.

9.) Mike like AR is a purist and confuses purism with Christ-likeness. Thru Biblicism Mike forces others to conform to his piety at the cost of Christ-likeness.

Nice language often obscures the truth while coaser foreign or or altered styles claries and reveals. The Bible often uses foreign and altered languages to communicate or hide the truth.
The truths you hear are the truths God wants you to hear.

This does not condone filthy or jestful talking, neither does it hinder the plain and obvious truth. American english lacks this understanding.

This is why a sodomizer is offically called by Bellevue investigators "moral failure". When you ask a urbanite for a description of a sodomizer, you won't get an answer because he probally doesn't know what it is. When you explain as best as you can he replies with offensive language that shocks you but better communicates the explanation.

This is the reason Christians can't communicate outside the church building. When he communicates plainly he sins against his purism.

Deliversance from purism is harder than deliverance from actual sin. The purist rarely converts. Hew remains stiffnecked and unmovable. He will lack substance while mastering style and pure language thru strict self-discipline.

This is why christ could cast out the demons out of the Gaderene but could do few works of deliverance in Judea. He could work in Sammaria and Galilee but the closer he was to Jerusalem the harder it was! Eventually Judean princes at Jerusalem through wickedness captured and crucified him.

The Mess That Adrian Rogers Left AT Bellevue IV

I posted this at Mike Bratton's Report:

Mike, There are godless and silly man made traditions to be refused. I Tim 4:7-10

The Bible is absolutely faithful and cannot be scrutinized, though men have tried but without success.Our acceptation, hermeneutics, is not faithful, and so is always open to scrutiny. Even under the Holy Spirit's inspiration those who prophecy are especially open to scrutiny. When the preacher exegetes the Word from the pulpit he is particularly in need of ruthless scrutiny by the hearers.

When Adrian Rogers led the SBC in a Conservative Resurgence it was a futile attempt to shore up the infallible Word of God. IMO It was a red herring for SBC emergent evangelism that has not produced large movements of new converts but mega-Churches for Church hoppers to migrate to without any significant growth to Christianity in America. This has resulted in small struggling Churches competing with "successful" big Churches.

This in the long run is a money-making scheme for a hierarchal few and a big boost for Christian marketing firms. It has produced an even bigger growth of Para-Church organization that drain the small Churches of revenue.

We have posted a sign to the Holy Spirit "We don't need you" I fault much of this mess in America to Adrian Rogers, though he is not alone in it.

This is not an attack of his character but his theology. Yet our theology does affect our behavior and if anything can be said of AR's behavior is that he had to know that his personality was in the way of whatever the Holy Spirit wanted to do in individual hearts in ways he had no control over.

I personally witnessed one small event 5 or 6 years ago when he silenced an exuberant woman's applause because he had to make his point in his message about how a mega-Church like Bellevue can be even bigger. Ordinarily this would be an insignificant event that could be excused so easily in AR's favor. But as Tim has said this a feeling that God has ordained me to continually harp about until someone takes me serious.

I believe with all my heart that the theological issue of Adrian Rogers' attacks of Reformed Theology is at the root of this mess. The final analysis is that anything that falls short of Reformed Theology opens the door to self-determination and closes the door to the same degree to the Holy Spirit. As a result the door as demonstrated by both sides of the Bellevue mess is nearly shut completely.

Mike let others, though your mind is made up, listen to James White's scrutiny of AR's theology.If they want to hear it bad enough it will cost them $3.00 to download but worth hearing. Dr White does not attack AR's character rather his

theology. http://www.aomin.org/catalog/index.php?cPath=25_29

The mess that Adrian Rogers left at Bellevue Part III

In addition to sharing my vision with my pasor, I went to Bellevue to talk with any minister I could talk to in hopes of finally reaching SG. I encountered no animosity nor any indication from them that I had a vendetta against AR. There was no questioning me about the validity of visions only that a vision had to be supported by scripture, which we all seem to agree. The uniqueness of the vision never was brought up.

Each conversation was well over an hour. I explaind that I was comming to them first as it would be hypocritical to go public without going to them. I was fervent beyond decorum and at times too loud to a fault.Each session was closed with prayer and each one ask God to help them understand what message God had for them. Hardy handshakes and God's blessings closed the times together.

I talked with Larry Ray and Phil Newberry and the thing that stuck in my mind was the look in their face when I mentioned the part about AR sitting and watching the crumbling of Bellevue. It was not the look of anger toward me for saying it but the 'in you face' look of plain and obvious truth. They knew better than anyone how true it was!
I went to GBC and by 'coincidence' was sent to Rob Mullins as he was the 'staff of the day'.The same with him as the others. Good meeting, firm handshakes. He knew my daughter, her husband and by extension the rest of my family by name! He only ask that I meet with him again as he had to process the information due to his closeness with AR. Specifically he acknowledged my fervency and that "his spirit bore witness with my spirit" He did not have problems with revelations, except that they must be confirmed by scripture. Our visit was good!

Now here is where it gets interesting. Office staff outside Rob's office overheard me getting loud and they feared for Rob's safety. They told some of the NBBCOF clique and the "gossip" (unfounded factual information)spread like wildfire.When the Monday brawl with a Bellevue member (I assume with a dissenter) took place at a nearby restuarant I was the assumed assailant! The assumptions were made to Rob and my attempts to get back with him were stymied.He finally called me at home and instructed me to never speak about this to him again. I was shocked and confused as to his abrupt turn-around.

Several weeks later two and two made four and I e-mailed Rob asking him for an explanation about the office incident. His reply was, "I have no control with what they do or say!" (Is there anyone out there who has office personel working for you)

I attempted several times to contack SG through his secretary and she reassusred me that I would be able to but he was in and out of town and hard to reach. Persistently I tried again only to be told extremely graciously that she was working on it and would call me. This occured over a period of three or more weeks.

Finally David Coombs called me at home and informed me that there was no way that I would be able to meet with SG, He said "is there anything you can say over the phone to him" I said, "I prefer a face to face meeting." Since he insisted it will not take place (I am convinced it had nothing to do with me but with SG's failing health and that he could not handle the added stress. JMO)tell him over the phone so as quickly as possible I told David everything. In sincerity he ask me "what should we do?" I replied "that is a big question and can not be answered simply over the phone." I knew in my mind that I was not even remotely qualified to give him an answer. Suddenly I fell to my knees and said to David, "David, you and Steve Gaines must unpretensiously rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you. You cannot pretend to rely on the HOLY Spirit You have to be led by the Holy Spirit." I said that with fervency and tears running down my face knowing that it would probally be the only chance I could get. David acknowledged the wisdom of that and we said our goodbyes.

The Mess that Adrian Rogers left at Bellevue - Part II

For you who are not outraged at Paul William for sodomizing his son I am linking to a post refered to by New Bellevue Baptist Church Open Forum called "Rape of Faith" which is from Bishop's Accountability website. It will help you to understand in graphic detail what went on in a Bellevue associate Pastor's home for 12-18 months. It is graphic.

"One Sunday afternoon in November, after Haas had said mass at St. Ann's, he drove up to the xxxxx's house and picked up young xxxx. Together, they made the long drive to Camp Marymount, a Catholic youth camp in northwest Williamson County. When a priest offered to take you for a drive, you didn't say no; you said, "Thanks, Father."

By the time they arrived at the vacant camp, the late afternoon sun was giving way to a cool, shadowy dusk, and the priest and boy sat on the steps of a cabin near the lake and talked. Another car sat parked at a nearby cabin. Its owner eventually walked up; he knew Haas, and the two talked for a few minutes. Then the man left. Haas was overseeing the fledgling wrestling program at Father Ryan, so when he brought up the topic, xxxxx thought nothing of it. The two talked about the art of wrestling—conversations about sports being a time-honored bonding ritual among males—and when his mentor suggested that the boy come inside so he could show him a few moves, it seemed perfectly normal: coach to wrestler, teacher to student, grownup to adolescent.

xxxx, in his letter, recounts what happened next: He suggested that we take our clothes off down to our underpants so we would not mess them up. He began demonstrating different moves and hold [sic] and our bodies were getting sweaty. He was showing me a hold when suddenly he penetrated me with his finger. He told me it was OK that's what the Greeks did when they wrestled in the Olympics. In fact he told me they wrestled in the nude and to get the true effects we should wrestle nude also. So we did. He told me that they grabbed anything they could get a hold of and not to be ashamed or embarrassed. That if I was going to be a good wrestler I had to learn to get used to that kind of contact. So I went along. Next thing I know he had grabbed my penis and was stroking me. I was shocked and embarrassed but it also felt good at the same time. I was confused. I felt this was wrong but I was with a priest. Father Hass [sic] said my reaction and erection was normal but if I was embarrassed he knew a way he could make it go away. So he began to perform oral sex on me. He then told me he had the same problem and asked that I help him out so we could continue.

After that, the two resumed wrestling. Haas told his young victim to assume a wrestling start position—kneeling with hands on the mat—and got behind him. "Before I knew it, he was in me and raping me," writes xxxx. "There was nothing but pain and horror and lots of tears and blood." "You know this is a sin," Haas said while raping him. "But God knows my needs, and he'll forgive us." xxxx, crying, could only ask "Why?" over and over and over again. "Because you're so handsome and good-looking," came the reply. "I love you."

Now before you get outraged at me for posting this, THINK, this is what an ordained SBC monster did to his son time after time for 12-18 months! We all need to get outraged.

You might say, "how can you futher put this boy through the shame he has already endured and I say what more could be done to him that his father has already done. There are other ministers out there as well as adult men who may hear our joined outrage and be notified that they WILL GO TO PRISON if we have anything to say!

The mess that Adrian Rogers left at Bellevue

These are two post that I made to the Mike Bratton blog
First post:
Since AR had a certain degree of Landmarkism, as indicated by Billie then in my thinking that changes the picture a bit about the Cal/Arm debate. That somewhat explains the disconnect from Armininism he had, though he was adamantly against Calvinism. It explains Billie's strong statements against the state influences in Church life.Both Billie and Adrian trace their linage back through Anabaptist back to the early Church. The whole Protestant/Reformation debate is avoided somewhat and the terms "Christian" and "Bible Believing" take on a different meaning than what would be rather obvious. Man made doctrines are those of the reformers to a degree.As a Pentecostal I heard speech about the Church of Christ and Baptist thinking that they were the only ones going to heaven, now fifty years later, for me makes sense.Strangely my memories of preaching showed an appreciation of Luther (absent Calvin) and the reformation leading to a Wesleyan/Pentecostal revival. We really didn't think we were the only ones going to heaven.The ones going to heaven were expected to achieve a rigorous sanctified life, which was positional and practical.While my background was not Biblically based it was better than the Baptist/Landmark/inconsistent Armininism that Adrian Rogers preached. It would have been difficult for PW to hide in the assemblies I grew up in.Believe me if a young man with my "struggles" to yet remain sane (which many of you question) then PW would go "nuts" a long time before 17 years.We don't have to be doctrinely correct for the Holy Spirit to move in the midst of uninformed people.

Second post:
When Bellevue and the Paul Williams' family needed an intersessor such as Abraham or even Lot, they didn't have one! They had a well-known and likable pastor but not an intersessor. Why didn't God confide in Adrian about what was comming to pass. Adrian was busy defining to the SBC what a dead-beat dad was and and his associate was a sodomizer. How dead-beat can you be? AR was an absentee-pastor when his "family" needed him most.Matthew Henry comments on Gen 18: 17 "Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do?"Abraham must know, for he is a friend and a favourite, and one that God has a particular kindness for and great things in store for. He is to become a great nation; and not only so, but in the Messiah, who is to come from his loins, All nations of the earth shall be blessed. Note, The secret of the Lord is with those that fear him, Psalms 25:14,Pr+3:32. Those who by faith live a life of communion with God cannot but know more of his mind than other people, though not with a prophetical, yet with a prudential practical knowledge. They have a better insight than others into what is present (Hosea 14:9,Ps+107:43), and a better foresight of what is to come, at least so much as suffices for their guidance and for their comfort.Abraham must know, for he will teach his household: I know Abraham very well, that he will command his children and his household after him, Genesis 18:19. Consider this, [1.] As a very bright part of Abraham's character and example. He not only prayed with his family, but he taught them as a man of knowledge, nay, he commanded them as a man in authority, and was prophet and king, as well as priest, in his own house. Observe, First, God having made the covenant with him and his seed, and his household being circumcised pursuant to that, he was very careful to teach and rule them well. Those that expect family blessings must make conscience of family duty. If our children be the Lord's, they must be nursed for him; if they wear his livery, they must be trained up in his work. Secondly, Abraham took care not only of his children, but of his household; his servants were catechized servants. Masters of families should instruct and inspect the manners of all under their roof. The poorest servants have precious souls that must be looked after. Thirdly, Abraham made it his care and business to promote practical religion in his family. He did not fill their heads with matters of nice speculation, or doubtful disputation; but he taught them to keep the way of the Lord, and to do judgment and justice, that is, to be serious and devout in the worship of God and to be honest in their dealings with all men. Fourthly, Abraham, herein, had an eye to posterity, and was in care not only that his household with him, but that his household after him, should keep the way of the Lord, that religion might flourish in his family when he was in his grave.

What is happening to mega- churches?

I posted this to Christa Brown on her website "Stop Baptist Predators" http://stopbaptistpredators.blogspot.com/

Yesterday our pastor preached part II from the first chapter of James on the subject: "Embracing Life's Trials" and you were on my mind again as he preached.

"Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing."

In 1958 McMinnville, Tennessee was celebrating their sesquicentennial at the court house and I was a bashful 12 year old down town by myself watching the town celebrities get hit with pies. I was pressing into the crowd to watch when someone though that it would be cute to just arbitrarily hit an innocent victim and I was that person. I was suddenly the center of the attraction and everyone was laughing at me.

For 47 years I live with arrested personality development, fearful that if I tried to standout in a crowd I would fail in my effort and be laughed at. I never told anyone about this humiliation and carried the hidden stigma of victimhood.

New Years eve 2005 God healed my personality and released me to be the kind of person he wants me to be.This was not a born-again experience because I had become a Christian at age 10 and was baptized in water as an outward sign of an inward work of grace.

Did God arrange this humiliation of me for his purpose? Absolutely! Yes!

During forty seven years I had stumbled through Church experiences seeing the humiliation that God himself endures because of the faulty theological views of Christ's atonement. God is mocked from the pulpit. Preachers have the audacity to obligate God to be a God of love. They rule by their own self-determination.Their behavior reflects their arrogant self-centered theology.

You observe this behavior in your struggle.

While He is a God of uncomprehendible love, He is also a God of wrath far greater than the human mind can understand.

Bellevue Baptist is the focus of this American theological error and the flagship of the SBC. Over twenty years ago God allowed the calamity of the pedophile in this church to accomplish his purpose.God is mocking American fundamentalism and it's lukewarm gospel. He is spewing it out of his mouth.

Through the internet, bloggers are serving God's purposes and many of our great American mega-churches will crumble.

Christa, our causes overlap. My cause is for the pain and humiliation God endures from these bigshot preachers who tread the blood of Christ and disgrace the Spirit of Grace. They rape and sodomize God from their pulpits.I am embracing my 47 year humiliation with joy knowing that I am a partaker with God in His suffering.

Dispensationalism

Warrenism wants to create a seeker friendly environment for the church and dispensationalism wants to create a reader friendly Bible. But both have thrown out the baby with the bathwater! It would seem that the efforts to perserve the authenticity and lasting importance of the Bible many today have perhaps done away with what may be the most important part of the Word. The part that causes men to fall on their face, worship God and know with certainty that "God is with us!"

1/07/2007
Dispensationalism (or some variation thereof) has robbed American fundamentalism of the the 'pneumatika' that the 'primitive, apostolic assembly of saints' possessed. God is not wanting us to become pentecostal but he is wanting us to be truly 'Spirit-led' under guidance of the 'perfect law of liberty'. In the primitive church there was liberty of the many members of the body to be spiritually enabled in their specific ministries under the restraint of the inspired preacher. The pastor who has to restrain the zeal of immature believers is better off than the pastor who has to continually motivate believers to be zealous. Many times the resolution of messy people problems are corrected by the move of the Spirit in an obscure corner of the Church. God is not restricted to the interpretations of committees but he moves according to his choosing among diversity. The cessationist theory of dispensationalism has robbed us of the element of Church where the secrets of men's hearts are revealed and they fall on their face knowing they are in God's presence.


1/31/2007
Bear with me while I belabor this point. I want to understand the present delima of the Church today. I believe that the present state of fundamentalism in American is largely due to the influence of Darby-Scofield Dispensationalism. The witness unto Christ is marred by materialism, bigotry and depersonalization in the Christian community. Everyone to whatever degree they bear the name of Christ will be a witness unto him either good or bad. Good witnesses are the result of the Holy Spirit comming upon individuals in Biblical fashion. Chauvinistic and Rationalistic coldness pervades the leadership and strives to restrain unbalanced enthusiasm. Much of this restraint comes from the influence of Darby-Scofield dispensationalism and the ensuing influence of arminian/semi-pelagianism. The church has the form of godliness but not the power. It seems to me that some of the clues are hidden in I Cor. 12-14 as to how we conduct ourselves in assemblies and how we become reliant on the Holy Spirit. The harmony that the church achieves is a unique product of the supernatural operation. The reformed believer understands this better than anyone. From the beginning the supernatural creation of life begins the spiritual walk. There must be harmony in the body. This does not mean the weak surrender to the dominance of the strong but that they blend together in such a way that the member that seems unimportant is treated with greater honor in an unpretensious way. Leaderhip has to restrain zeal and enthusiasm but what has to be restrained has to be heard and informed. If it is not restrained there will not be order and if it is not heard and informed there will not be harmony. Order alone eliminates discord and strife and unity above all prevails. Harmony produces the love and trust that identifies holiness and purity. With order, alone, secrets of men's hearts can be concealed but with harmony of a spiritual nature the secrets of the heart are revealed. The world will know that God is really with us!The desire to build a church friendly to sinners conflicts with the desire of God to build a church where the Spirit draws sinners.

2/01/2007
Before 1957 A.W. Tozer wrote about the current dilemma of fundamentalism in his day. "A widespread revival of the kind of Christianity we know today (1957) in America might prove to be a moral tragedy from which we would not recover in a hundred years." Tozer's words were prophetic! They are being fullfilled before our eyes.He says: "A generation ago, as a reaction from Higher Criticism and its offspring, Modernism, there arose in Protestantism a powerful movement in defense of the historic Christian faith. This, for obvious reasons, came to be known as fundamentalism."He also said, "Fundamentalism fell victim to its own virtues. The Word died in the hands of its friends. The voice of the prophet was silenced and the scribe captured the minds of the faithful. In large areas religious imagination withered. An unofficial hierarchy decided what Christians were to believe. Not the Scriptures, but what the scribe thought the Scriptures meant became the Christian creed. Christian Colleges, seminaries, Bible Institutes, Bible Conferences, popular Bible expositors all joined to promote the cult of textualism. The system of EXTREME DISPENSATIONALISM which was devised, relieved the Christian of repentance, obedience and cross carrying in any other than the most formal sense. Whole sections of the New Testatment were taken from the Church and disposed of after a rigid system of 'dividing the Word of Truth'.""The error of texualism is not doctrinal. Not its theological beliefs are at fault, but its assumptions. It assumes, for instance, that if we have a word for a thing we have the thing itself. If it is in the Bible, it is in us. If we have the doctrine, we have the experience. If something was true for Paul it is of necessity true of us because we accept Paul's epistles as divinely inspired. The Bible tell us how to be saved, but textualism goes on to MAKE IT TELL US that we are saved, something which in the very nature of things it cannot do. Assurance of individual salvation is thus no more than a logical conclusion drawn from doctrinal premises, and the resulant experience wholly mental."The current condition of American fundamentalism is the "Beliver's Babylonian Captivity"Tozer states, "the letter triumphed, the Spirit withdrew and textualism ruled supreme."A.W. Tozer, 'Keys to the Deeper Life'

2/18/2007
The Biblical orthodxy that triumphed in the mid 1800 and was under attack at the turn of the century was a two-fold attack of modernism. What we mistakingly call conservative theology today was a type of liberal theology and both were opposed to orthodox Christianity. Both were humanistic expressions of free will over God's sovereignty. Jesus met both Sadducees and Pharisees in debates. One added to the Scriptures and the other took away from scripure. In the same way opposition to orthodox theology undermined the authority of scripure and denied God his supernatural power to intervene in human affairs. In the plain words of Christ to both groups he says they are ignorant of the Scriptures and God's power. When leaders of the Southern Baptist say they led the church away from liberalism and back on conservative tract they just moved from the backwoods to the middle of the woods, still in the wilderness. Natural processes have replaced the actual presence of God to rule. We have the form of godliness but not the power.

2/25/2007
Dispensationalism and evolution have some similarities. Both are theories that are prominent in this century. I started school in 1952 and already we were exposed to the pictures of the development of man from an ape. That picture was a lie from the deepest part of hell. It was a picture that even Darwin himself would not accept. No intelligent scientist would ever see that picture as a reflection of scientific honesty. It was simplistic and emotive ridicule of people's belief in creationism. Yet in public schools it was portrayed as fact. In churches Christians accepted another theory as fact and that was dispensationalism. Both theories have done irrepairable harm to America.Scofield says that the revelation concerning the Holy Spirit is progressive. In the O.T. He comes upon whom He will. On the day of Pentecost He comes upon the whole body of believers. After Pentecost, so long as the gospel was preached to Jews only, the Holy Spirit was imparted by the laying on of hands. (how is this gospel different?) When Peter opened the door to the Gentiles, the Holy Spirit, without delay, or other condition than faith, was given to thoes who believed. Though this is one of the many theories of rightly dividing the Word (there are better) Scofield says, "this is the permanent fact for the entire church-age." This faith that Scofield speaks about is not the Faith that Paul spoke of but a semipelagian faith that insults the Spirit of Grace. Incidently He says that this insult is a sin of unbelievers against the Holy Spirit.If Scofield is right here then dispensationalism is equal to blasphemy.The confusion of Scofield is seen in Notes to I Cor 12 when he implies that the Holy Spirit acts in free sovereignty distributing spiritual enablements to believers for service. "There is no room for self choosing, and Christian service is simply the ministry of such gift as the individual may have received."But in I Cor 14 this liberty for ministry is not relevant for us today. So that on one hand He insults the Holy Spirit now he implies that we don't need this primitive liberty we have that which is perfect and we have confusion as to what is perfect and that which is "in part". We have in the words of a famous pastor, Steve Gaines, hung a "Do Not Disturb" sign on our bedroom doors. No thank you Holy Spirit we'll figure it out ourselves. Then to seal the stone door Scofield seals the door shut with the words, "These injunctions are declared to be the commandments of the Lord" Oh My!
3/12/2007

We are in uncharted waters and this website is a vehicle to seek out the causes of the sins that affect Bellevue. God is searching for distressed people who cry and sigh over the abominations that are done at Bellevue.Is God angry? In his terrible fury will he sweep a man by the hair of the head and lift him between earth and heaven and say, "go to Bellevue and see the abominations they do there. Dig a hole in an obscure area and go in to the secret chambers and see the sins they do in my house."In these chambers they say, "the Lord seeth us not: the Lord has forsaken the earth." They have hung up a sign that says to the Holy Spirit, "Do Not Disturb"They, along with American Fundamentalism, have devised a God of Love and a message that obligates this God of Love to save according to the will of the sinner and the preacher. They do despite to the Spirit of Grace and a sore punishment has come to them.

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