Perry, don't try to mix the the modern gospel with the Biblical wedding tradition, they are not complimentary. Just stay with Rogers and Finney-like revivals. Go ahead and make your fortune on TV marketing tapes.
The modern evangelical gospel came from Britain to America in the form of divine enablements for the sinner to repent. This message is pervasive through out American Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism. You are pouring new acidic wine into old wine skins. Your message is highly acidic.* The modern wooing of the sinner to decide for himself is as foreigh to the Bible as Elvis is to the Apostle Paul!
You have young middle eastern virgins acting like harlots. That is not a problem for our traditions but for the conservative Jews and Muslims this is offensive. Only "loose women" would be conducting themselves in this manner at a public well or market. Young conservative men would not approach such girls except for one reason and that would not be marriage.
You are assuming that this demonstrates the wooing of the sinner by the Holy Spirit to become a candidate for salvation. This demonstration will not complement a Biblical wedding.
In ancient times, many of the first marriages were by capture, not choice. Bible marriages are arranged, a concept we cannot embrace in modern times. The modern concept of free choice on the part of the maiden did not come until the middle ages. We sing "Love and Marriage", they sing "marriage and love". That is one of the reasons we have so many young girls with baby carriages without a husband. They thought that they had an intended husband but they had only a father. They mistook love for a lust driven male.
French and Italian Mediterraneans cultivated modern romance and Victorian formality firmed up the modern concept of marriage. Sacred to us but not to the Middle East. When their young seek to copy modern romantic intentions it is frowned upon.
Perhaps this may be a reason western modern evangelism has little effect in the middle east while Christian tourism rockets. They take our money and laugh all the way to the bank!
*While Wesleyan theology differs from most Baptist theology both are similar in that they have a divine enablement while admitting to a state of spiritual death, making it possible for the sinner to make a choice for salvation. Those who do not subscribe to a total spiritual death are of a different free will theology. This is why Finneyism is so destructive.
Unitarianism in the form of Liberalism, Jehovah Witnesses and Mormonism are free will theologies without this spiritual death. Many Baptist are coming close to this belief, ie. Rogers and many modern dispensationalist who are dangerously close to denying original sin. The SBC BF&M nearly implies this. Wesleyan theology, IMO, is not as close. Classical Arminianism, those who cling closely to the teachings of Jacobus Arminius, are not as close since they believe in total depravity, original sin. ie. remonstrants
October 31, 2008
October 29, 2008
Perry Stone, What Are You Thinking!!!
A few nights ago I couldn't sleep so I was channel surfing and came across Perry Stone Ministries. The elaborate stage production caught my attention and I watched an enactment of Jewish courtship in a marketplace. Four girls and a young man were the cast members.To see this go to Perry Stone Ministries and click on "Manna-fest" Rapture Revelation - Ancient Jewish Wedding-part 1, program #420. I came from the same Pentecostal denomination as Perry so I was interested in what he had to say. Fast forward to 18 minutes 38 seconds and watch the clip through 22:52. At 22:45 I was saying, "Perry, what are you thinking? Haven't you done any research at all?" (of course earlier he had stated that a lady had prepared the drama portion and she apparently had not done any research)
Cowardice!
click on the picture Please allow me this frivolity! This is too good! There is going to be some profanity involved, I offer no excuses for it. I'm convinced that Bellevue's response "moral failure" is as profane, perhaps worst than my description. I personally don't want to stand before God having called homosexuality "moral failure." I would expect to be struck by lightening.
If you are offended by my language, bear with me in my outrage. If you can not stand it, move on to other blogs. There is more and not from NASS' cowards.
October 28, 2008
How Deep Will This Hole Get?
NASS said: "After all, about 10 years ago, when a certain staff minister was caught embezzling money from the church and doing other things he shouldn't have been doing, AR fired him. Then when he couldn't get a job at the seminary because BBC gave him a bad recommendation, he turned around and sued the church for "defamation of character." Instead of standing their ground (what court in the land wouldn't side with BBC in this matter?), AR reportedly had the church pay him off to the tune of $500,000. After all, we wouldn't want the great Bellevue to suffer any "negative publicity." In this case, I believe AR was wrong.Bellevue, like many organizations, has always been very concerned with appearances, and they've never been above sweeping something under the rug that might potentially harm their reputation. There were plenty of things "swept under the rug" at Bellevue over the years. I've always said SG had to replace the carpet in his office when he got here because of the big lump that had accumulated underneath it over the years."
"But PW was not the only staff minister who has strayed. Somehow the "Biblical Guidance" department always seems to be involved. Is that ironic or what? I've been in contact with a man who claims his wife was involved in an affair with the pastor of their church in another state. This pastor had been there for 25 years, but when the heat got too hot there, he ended up in Memphis -- and was soon employed by BBC. He lasted there about a year -- until this man and a group from his church confronted him (reportedly with the "love" letters he'd written to this man's wife) and called Bellevue. Instead of dealing with the situation, Bellevue let him quietly retire. No one is sure if he's moved on to another "ministry" or what. He seems to have dropped off the radar screen. But this is just another example of how churches and other organizations frequently sweep distasteful things under the rug. It's all about maintaining their "image." commented on The Cakes Report
GMOMMY said: "... it is absolutely true about the cash settlement to the minister who had an affair and misappropriated church money. I was very close to him before this came out...(during the time he was having the affair he was actually working with my husband) The "other woman" was a SS friend of my niece. I didn't hear about the pay off until years later...but it now fits with confusing phone calls I had with the minister's wife.I got confirmation from a BBC man who was a deacon and had very close ties with the seminary.There is no confirmation about who actually suggested the settlement or at what point Bro R gave the OK (it was $500,000) but it did happen. During a time when many of us were working together believing we could resolve the issues tearing down the trust....one of our truth seeker friends had a background in finance, budgets and non profits....he took the budget handout along with the questions answered at the budget meeting and explained how money from certain areas could easily be moved around and not bust the budget or raise a red flag." commented on The Cakes Report (mysteriously deleted)
"But PW was not the only staff minister who has strayed. Somehow the "Biblical Guidance" department always seems to be involved. Is that ironic or what? I've been in contact with a man who claims his wife was involved in an affair with the pastor of their church in another state. This pastor had been there for 25 years, but when the heat got too hot there, he ended up in Memphis -- and was soon employed by BBC. He lasted there about a year -- until this man and a group from his church confronted him (reportedly with the "love" letters he'd written to this man's wife) and called Bellevue. Instead of dealing with the situation, Bellevue let him quietly retire. No one is sure if he's moved on to another "ministry" or what. He seems to have dropped off the radar screen. But this is just another example of how churches and other organizations frequently sweep distasteful things under the rug. It's all about maintaining their "image." commented on The Cakes Report
GMOMMY said: "... it is absolutely true about the cash settlement to the minister who had an affair and misappropriated church money. I was very close to him before this came out...(during the time he was having the affair he was actually working with my husband) The "other woman" was a SS friend of my niece. I didn't hear about the pay off until years later...but it now fits with confusing phone calls I had with the minister's wife.I got confirmation from a BBC man who was a deacon and had very close ties with the seminary.There is no confirmation about who actually suggested the settlement or at what point Bro R gave the OK (it was $500,000) but it did happen. During a time when many of us were working together believing we could resolve the issues tearing down the trust....one of our truth seeker friends had a background in finance, budgets and non profits....he took the budget handout along with the questions answered at the budget meeting and explained how money from certain areas could easily be moved around and not bust the budget or raise a red flag." commented on The Cakes Report (mysteriously deleted)
October 27, 2008
Kicking Up Golddust
“When my time comes, don’t be sorry for me; I’ll be kicking up gold dust on the streets of glory.” “this is a win-win for me.” “I am at perfect peace."A good friend of Rogers wrote this tribute: "Through the years, Adrian and I rallied for battle, sometimes side-by-side and sometimes on opposite lines. He always liked to pretend that he never quite understood why I was a Presbyterian. I always liked to pretend that I never quite understood why he was a Baptist. None of that really matters any more--I'm guessing he knows better now! Somehow though, I can almost hear his sonorous voice engaging the Apostle Paul--or Polycarp or Augustine or maybe even Calvin, Bucer, and Beza--arguing against the idea of covenantalism, even as he did with me, but all the while punctuating each rhetorical flourish with a familiar jolly chuckle.I know my beloved brother, is going to enjoy being home."
Did Dr Rogers have a personal vision of himself walking down the streets of glory, kicking up gold dust? Was this just a general assumption? Was this just another death bed affirmation?
Did his friend believe strongly that Rogers was his usual self as he had been in the halls of his beloved Bellevue, engaging the residents of heaven with his familiar "sonorous voice" and "jolly chuckle"?
I met him once and ceremoniously shook his hand on the stage at Bellevue. I was impressed as anyone with his persona and courteous nature. However early in 2007 while walking my dog I heard from heaven about Adrian Rogers. In a vision I saw a chair being shoved forward and the angry voice of God say, "Adrian Rogers, sit here in this chair and watch your beloved Bellevue crumble and be destroyed." I had never experienced hurt from Dr Rogers and no vendetta against him. There was no reason for jealously on my part as he was way, way out of my league.
Needlessly, I have been sorely criticized for saying this. It is alright to offer your own affirmation of your state in heaven and for your friends to speculate how you are doing in heaven. If I had said by vision he was walking the streets, kicking up gold dust no one would be questioning the reliability of old men seeing visions.
I shared this vision with a manager at work and he said: "hey, if God had taken time out to show me anything at all I would be leaping up and down excited with joy that he had selected me!" "Charles, how many people in all of America are hearing directly from God about anything?" However all the Christians in my circles are skeptical about visions, particularly mine.
This vision does not diminish with time but intensifies. Scripture rules visions and not the other way around. It is OK to be presumptuous and speculative but I would never ever be so presumptuous to utter these words about any man's heavenly reward. It would be erroneous to do so. This is clearly from the Lord or else it is Satanic! It can also be Satanic to make assumptions or speculations about one's or other's destiny! We say according to God's will let it be so.
We cannot say that so and so was so evil that he surely went to hell. Neither can we say that someone was so good they surely went to heaven. Neither can we speculate who has clearly accepted Christ or has denied his offer of salvation. Heaven will reveal how right our speculations were. (My personal belief that we will error on the negative side and that many we thought would perish in torment will be there. They will be as surprised that we are there!) Anyway heaven will have the same number of mansions as those elected in pre-creation. God will remain just and right, unchangeable in all his ways.
Perhaps God is using me to say to America: "don't be presumptuous about heaven." Heaven is our home, 'oh glorious thought', but there may be surprises there that should cause us to fall on our faces in brokenness, "I am a man of unclean lips and dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips."
October 26, 2008
Is Everyman A Liar?
Richard Land, president of the SBC's Ethics & Religious Liberties Commission, called Rogers the Apostle Paul of the SBC. "The amazing thing about this man is that he is the same in private as he is in public," Land said. "Who he is comes forth from his inmost self. He's humble, never haughty. Bold, never bombastic. Clear, but never cutting. Scintillating, but never sarcastic. Sanctified, but never sanctimonious."
"Who he is comes forth from his inmost self." Is this a veiled accolade? Was Adrian Rogers a product of his own self-determination? He was never haughty, bombastic, cutting, sarcastic and sanctimonious! This was said about Dr Rogers at his retirement service at Bellevue Baptist. Under pressure to give the best tribute, perhaps nervous, maybe prideful, lie (embellish the truth) in his accolade or perhaps say something that he had not really intended to say. Could this be a "pelagian slip" not meant to be understood by common ears?
Was the apostle Paul ever haughty, bombastic, cutting, sarcastic and sanctimonious? I think so and perhaps Paul would be the first to admit it. Out of his "inmost self" comes forth nothing good but lies. Romans 3: 4,10
My self produced accolades: "I am proud of my humility, bombastically bold, cutting like jagged glass, (you won't detect the long pause but my wife ordered me to go fold the clothes before guest arrive, which I promptly did!) sarcastic and sanctimonious even though I am sanctified.
Let my accolade be "sinner saved by grace"
October 25, 2008
Nailing Down Adrian Rogers' Theology
I don't consider myself a specialist in theology. Unless you think that studying five years to earn a four year degree in Biblical Education with a minor in Missions ("minor in missions so you will not have to study a biblical language," said my advisor. He knew I could not pass those subjects) in a Pentecostal Liberal Arts College qualifies you to be a theologian. That was almost 40 years ago.
My pastor says that there are some questions that have to be answered in heaven! After I listened to the pastor of my home town church, I announced to him that I was a Calvinist! His short and to the point answer was, " a smart man had said to him years ago that such things should not be discussed by common people, just theologians!" That was after hearing a long rambling Sunday morning sermon about "Conditional Security" (part one had been preached the previous Sunday) It was actually a denial of unconditional security. He proudly held up the book he was using as a guide, "Unconditional Eternal Security Myth or Truth?" by French Arrington. He could preach for forty five minutes against Eternal Security but we could not discuss Calvinism over the dinner table! The odds are stacked against you if you want to defend Calvinism but you can freely attack Calvinism. To make it even more difficult there are Calvinist who will not converse with you if you defend "high Calvinism." So we are stuck this side of heaven about the truth!
Should I discuss theology? Am I qualified? All this said, can I make the claim that Adrian Rogers was Pelagian? Pelagians would be offended by this! Religious Pelagians are by definition Unitarian and Arianist if they can be called "Christian" at all. Rogers retains pelagian views in his belief in free will, though he is trinitarian. That would make him semi-pelagian. The problem is can you be a trinitarian and still hold to pelagian views? Most theologians say, no. I tend to agree with them. Strangely the Second Council of Orange in 529 AD settled this. It was heretical and the council ruled in favor of the views of Augustine of Hippo. This was the position of the Catholic Church, though it never complied in practice with the ruling.
However Adrian Rogers' self-driven goodness assumed upon himself and reassured by his wife and followers was a product of some sort of pelagianism. There was some goodness that allowed free will in choosing. He espoused a personal goodness that could not be attained by mere common men! He nor his wife would allow his goodness to be stained by others less righteous than themselves. This did not come about by the grace of God but a lifelong discipline to each other. Dr and Mrs Rogers carved a place for themselves in a hostile wilderness and evolved loving practices to suit the circumstances. They created an insular world for themselves even as teenagers with a strong self-determination that denied any hold that original sin or depravity had on the common man. They would not allow the corruption of their own Church to soil themselves! Death had a hold on this new order and it unraveled quickly!
It is not correct to say he is Pelagian though in part and principle he is. He was not a heretic. He could be called a semi-Augustinian but that seems just another way of saying he is semi-Pelagian. He called himself a "Biblicist" but aren't we all? Unitarians call themselves "Biblicist"!
I think he was a pseudo-Trinitarian! He was a dysfunctional Trinitarian. Now there is a term that carries a bite!
My pastor says that there are some questions that have to be answered in heaven! After I listened to the pastor of my home town church, I announced to him that I was a Calvinist! His short and to the point answer was, " a smart man had said to him years ago that such things should not be discussed by common people, just theologians!" That was after hearing a long rambling Sunday morning sermon about "Conditional Security" (part one had been preached the previous Sunday) It was actually a denial of unconditional security. He proudly held up the book he was using as a guide, "Unconditional Eternal Security Myth or Truth?" by French Arrington. He could preach for forty five minutes against Eternal Security but we could not discuss Calvinism over the dinner table! The odds are stacked against you if you want to defend Calvinism but you can freely attack Calvinism. To make it even more difficult there are Calvinist who will not converse with you if you defend "high Calvinism." So we are stuck this side of heaven about the truth!
Should I discuss theology? Am I qualified? All this said, can I make the claim that Adrian Rogers was Pelagian? Pelagians would be offended by this! Religious Pelagians are by definition Unitarian and Arianist if they can be called "Christian" at all. Rogers retains pelagian views in his belief in free will, though he is trinitarian. That would make him semi-pelagian. The problem is can you be a trinitarian and still hold to pelagian views? Most theologians say, no. I tend to agree with them. Strangely the Second Council of Orange in 529 AD settled this. It was heretical and the council ruled in favor of the views of Augustine of Hippo. This was the position of the Catholic Church, though it never complied in practice with the ruling.
However Adrian Rogers' self-driven goodness assumed upon himself and reassured by his wife and followers was a product of some sort of pelagianism. There was some goodness that allowed free will in choosing. He espoused a personal goodness that could not be attained by mere common men! He nor his wife would allow his goodness to be stained by others less righteous than themselves. This did not come about by the grace of God but a lifelong discipline to each other. Dr and Mrs Rogers carved a place for themselves in a hostile wilderness and evolved loving practices to suit the circumstances. They created an insular world for themselves even as teenagers with a strong self-determination that denied any hold that original sin or depravity had on the common man. They would not allow the corruption of their own Church to soil themselves! Death had a hold on this new order and it unraveled quickly!
It is not correct to say he is Pelagian though in part and principle he is. He was not a heretic. He could be called a semi-Augustinian but that seems just another way of saying he is semi-Pelagian. He called himself a "Biblicist" but aren't we all? Unitarians call themselves "Biblicist"!
I think he was a pseudo-Trinitarian! He was a dysfunctional Trinitarian. Now there is a term that carries a bite!
October 22, 2008
The Buck Stops Here
President Harry S. Truman kept a sign on his desk that read, “The buck stops here.” Top management takes responsibility and assumes guilt for failures.
Pass the buck means to shift responsibility and blame from oneself to another person. "Passing the buck is a way of life in large bureaucracies."
Island of righteousness: RC Sproul says that thoughts of Pelagianism are not just tangential or trace in modern Christianity but pervasive. There is a correlation between Dr Rogers' Pelagian views and his management principles. His island of righteousness flows not from grace but from a self adsorbed view of goodness. He is too good to have to deal with negative news. This is arrogance manifested in not being aware of Paul Williams' sin for seventeen years and not knowing what one-half million dollars of peoples' contributions went toward.
"What I don't know can't hurt me!" "Go ahead and do it just don't tell me!" Can a person be intentionally ignorant to the point of negligence? The person whom you pass the buck to will eventually have contempt for you. It breeds distrust and contempt.
These are speculative situations but 17 years, which can only be verified negatively by Joyce Rogers; we only have her word for it. $500,000 which can not be verified that he didn't know what it was used for however it seems consistent with his methodology. Is $500,000 a lot of money to you?
Pass the buck means to shift responsibility and blame from oneself to another person. "Passing the buck is a way of life in large bureaucracies."
Island of righteousness: RC Sproul says that thoughts of Pelagianism are not just tangential or trace in modern Christianity but pervasive. There is a correlation between Dr Rogers' Pelagian views and his management principles. His island of righteousness flows not from grace but from a self adsorbed view of goodness. He is too good to have to deal with negative news. This is arrogance manifested in not being aware of Paul Williams' sin for seventeen years and not knowing what one-half million dollars of peoples' contributions went toward.
"What I don't know can't hurt me!" "Go ahead and do it just don't tell me!" Can a person be intentionally ignorant to the point of negligence? The person whom you pass the buck to will eventually have contempt for you. It breeds distrust and contempt.
These are speculative situations but 17 years, which can only be verified negatively by Joyce Rogers; we only have her word for it. $500,000 which can not be verified that he didn't know what it was used for however it seems consistent with his methodology. Is $500,000 a lot of money to you?
October 18, 2008
Bellevue's Collateral Damage
Clearly there were two people who experienced emotional strain in the Rogers to Gaines transition. Rob Mullins and Jim Whitmire were subjected to bureaucratic blunders that left them somewhat devastated emotionally. I sat down with Rob in an interview and I know his devastation and his slow recovery. He was very close to Dr Rogers, "he was like a father to me."
I witnessed the Whitmire retirement announcement on a December Sunday night service at Bellevue. As soon as the Singing Christmas Tree was over he announced to the staff his retirement plans December 14, 2005 and afterwards there was a public announcement before the congregation. I had been a pastor for 25 years and understood pulpit posturing and Dr Whitmire and his wife's postures spoke of embarrassment and disappointment.
I'm sure that the Whitmires would take exception to my opinion. There was not a surprise with their retirement announcement, but there was in the suddenness and way it was handled. That same night an announcement was made that Jamie Parker would be coming after the New Year by Gaines personally. The spontaneous outburst of applause by the congregation was embarrassing and I felt the Whitmires hurt. This was insensitive of Gaines and the congregation and was unacceptable conduct.
This change was for a man with a fifth avenue, used car salesman's smile, for a humble man who had dedicated his life to worshipful ministry in music. It was style over substance!
The pain inflicted to these two families, Whitmire and Mullins was not so much Gaines' doing but a nucleus of Bellevue rulers who had fostered contempt for the way things were going under Rogers.
These people were a product of Rogers' ministry.
I witnessed the Whitmire retirement announcement on a December Sunday night service at Bellevue. As soon as the Singing Christmas Tree was over he announced to the staff his retirement plans December 14, 2005 and afterwards there was a public announcement before the congregation. I had been a pastor for 25 years and understood pulpit posturing and Dr Whitmire and his wife's postures spoke of embarrassment and disappointment.
I'm sure that the Whitmires would take exception to my opinion. There was not a surprise with their retirement announcement, but there was in the suddenness and way it was handled. That same night an announcement was made that Jamie Parker would be coming after the New Year by Gaines personally. The spontaneous outburst of applause by the congregation was embarrassing and I felt the Whitmires hurt. This was insensitive of Gaines and the congregation and was unacceptable conduct.
This change was for a man with a fifth avenue, used car salesman's smile, for a humble man who had dedicated his life to worshipful ministry in music. It was style over substance!
The pain inflicted to these two families, Whitmire and Mullins was not so much Gaines' doing but a nucleus of Bellevue rulers who had fostered contempt for the way things were going under Rogers.
These people were a product of Rogers' ministry.
October 16, 2008
Belated Speculations
Any notion that every thing was harmonious at Bellevue before Steve Gaines came is preposterous. Of coarse this is my speculation based on observations for the past one and half years and some interesting interviews.
Again Dr Rogers was kept out of the light, intentionally or unintentionally. His recommendation for Dr Gaines was well known. However the behind the back arrangements with the 10 members of the Pastor Search Committee: Chuck Taylor, Chairman, Harry Smith, Vice Chairman, Faye Hardy, Steve Tucker, Eric Brand, Bryan Miller, Bob Sorrell, Jeff Arnold, JR.,
Mark Spiller and PatCaldwell reveal the lack of unity with Adrian Rogers.
It is my speculation and mine alone, but when the committee went to Steve Gaines they let him know that there were two people who would have to go immediately, Jim Whitmire and Rob Mullins, perhaps the two closest friends of Dr. Rogers at Bellevue. The music and the College and Career ministries had to be changed immediately. Jim Whitmire and Rob Mullins lacked the leadership for Bellevue's new direction. Both of these men suffered greatly, emotionally, in the way this transition occurred.
Perhaps it was not the whole committee but rather a few of the members of the committee.
From the beginning Jamie Parker was the pick for Whitmire's replacement. This desire for Jamie was so strong that perhaps Steve Gaines was merely Jamie Parker's pastor! This transition lacked any semblance to Christianity rather it was a corporate boardroom strategy.
This committee was asking Dr Gaines to do the one thing that every new pastor knows he shouldn't do; implement major changes within the first year. I am sure that this caught Dr. and Mrs. Rogers off guard as well. Even though he died before Whitmire retired he must have suspected the drastic change. The pulpit committee's strategy successfully made it appear that all this was Steve Gaines' wishes.
Indeed Steve Gaines inherited a mess!
Again Dr Rogers was kept out of the light, intentionally or unintentionally. His recommendation for Dr Gaines was well known. However the behind the back arrangements with the 10 members of the Pastor Search Committee: Chuck Taylor, Chairman, Harry Smith, Vice Chairman, Faye Hardy, Steve Tucker, Eric Brand, Bryan Miller, Bob Sorrell, Jeff Arnold, JR.,
Mark Spiller and PatCaldwell reveal the lack of unity with Adrian Rogers.
It is my speculation and mine alone, but when the committee went to Steve Gaines they let him know that there were two people who would have to go immediately, Jim Whitmire and Rob Mullins, perhaps the two closest friends of Dr. Rogers at Bellevue. The music and the College and Career ministries had to be changed immediately. Jim Whitmire and Rob Mullins lacked the leadership for Bellevue's new direction. Both of these men suffered greatly, emotionally, in the way this transition occurred.
Perhaps it was not the whole committee but rather a few of the members of the committee.
From the beginning Jamie Parker was the pick for Whitmire's replacement. This desire for Jamie was so strong that perhaps Steve Gaines was merely Jamie Parker's pastor! This transition lacked any semblance to Christianity rather it was a corporate boardroom strategy.
This committee was asking Dr Gaines to do the one thing that every new pastor knows he shouldn't do; implement major changes within the first year. I am sure that this caught Dr. and Mrs. Rogers off guard as well. Even though he died before Whitmire retired he must have suspected the drastic change. The pulpit committee's strategy successfully made it appear that all this was Steve Gaines' wishes.
Indeed Steve Gaines inherited a mess!
Confidentiality Agreements
What happens at Bellevue stays at Bellevue!
Corporations have non-disclosure agreements (NDA) to protect the trade secrets. Kentucky Fried Chicken guards their recipe under tight security.
What trade agreements does a Church guard? Is it the formula for the gospel? Is it a secret how the Christian life is lived out daily?
No, in Bellevue's case it is sin. The public does not need to know about the sin in the ranks!
How in the world does anyone expect to get deliverd from sin at Bellevue? Here, sign a NDA.
An NDA has a clause to deny even an existence of an NDA. When asked about an NDA you have to lie about it!
October 14, 2008
My Baptist Heritage
My great, great, great, great grandfather is Hezekiah Allen. My ggggrandfather, Barnabas and his brother Jacob Page married Hezekiah's daughters. Hezekiah was a member of the Holmes Creek Two Seed in the Spirit Predestinarian Baptist Church as recorded in 1820. Holmes Creek is a part of the Indian Creek district on the banks of the Caney Fork river in Dekalb County, Tennessee. My roots grow deep in hyper-Calvinism! ha!
Like the Two Seeds view it hardly exist at all today. Even Primitive Baptist reject it. Yet the greatest fear of theologians today, hyper-Calvinism, is non-existent.
Now on the other hand I am fearful of humanistic free will views. Hardly any one expresses this fear. This error is mixed with what little truth remains in American Fundamentalism.
Like the Two Seeds view it hardly exist at all today. Even Primitive Baptist reject it. Yet the greatest fear of theologians today, hyper-Calvinism, is non-existent.
Now on the other hand I am fearful of humanistic free will views. Hardly any one expresses this fear. This error is mixed with what little truth remains in American Fundamentalism.
Top Ten Things One Half Million Can Do!!
10) 500,000 Dollars for Capture of LA Serial Killer
9) The "average" price of a house in Calgary has now surpassed the $500,000 dollar mark.
8) The U.S. embassy to China, on behalf of the U.S. government, Wednesday handed over 500,000 U.S. dollars of cash to the Red Cross Society of China for quake relief in southwestern China.
7) The United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) said Friday it would spend 500,000 dollars in the next three months to help children displaced by nearly two months of fighting in the southern Philippines.
6) Plate gold motorcycle selling at 500,000 dollars
5) The most common but also one of the most dangerous ways to make 500 grand or more a year.
4) Madonna Receives 500,000 Dollars Charity Donation from Rumored Lover Alex Rodriguez
3) People Mag Pays Clay Aiken 500,000 Dollars for Gay Revelation Cover Shoot
2) US first lady donates 500,000 dollars to Catholic AIDS program in Tanzania
1) If you know something bad about Bellevue Baptist you can make an easy $500,000!
9) The "average" price of a house in Calgary has now surpassed the $500,000 dollar mark.
8) The U.S. embassy to China, on behalf of the U.S. government, Wednesday handed over 500,000 U.S. dollars of cash to the Red Cross Society of China for quake relief in southwestern China.
7) The United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) said Friday it would spend 500,000 dollars in the next three months to help children displaced by nearly two months of fighting in the southern Philippines.
6) Plate gold motorcycle selling at 500,000 dollars
5) The most common but also one of the most dangerous ways to make 500 grand or more a year.
4) Madonna Receives 500,000 Dollars Charity Donation from Rumored Lover Alex Rodriguez
3) People Mag Pays Clay Aiken 500,000 Dollars for Gay Revelation Cover Shoot
2) US first lady donates 500,000 dollars to Catholic AIDS program in Tanzania
1) If you know something bad about Bellevue Baptist you can make an easy $500,000!
October 12, 2008
Good Baptist Calvinism
"Tennessee State Van Buren County: We the United Baptist at Big fork believing in the doctrine of Election the final perseverance of the saints and Believer's Baptism by imersion do certify that our beloved sister Nancy Lawson is member now in full fellowship with us and is Dismist from us when joined to any other Church of the same faith an order. this done by order of the Church first Sabath in October 1842. Thomas Moore -credit
October 11, 2008
188 Years Later . . .
The three principal leaders of the anti-missions movement were John Taylor, Daniel Parker and Alexander Campbell. Daniel Parker, pictured above, was the founder of the Two Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptist. He was the enemy of missions on the frontier.
Several awakenings or revivals had brought about an increase in Baptist growth at the close of the 1700's, especially in Kentucky and Tennessee. With the increase was an interest in foreign missions. It is a misnomer to assume that the opposition to foreign missions was opposition to biblical evangelism. These men opposed the Spiritless man-centered associations under the influence of Arminianism. Every Christian should move obediently through a door God opens.
It is my opinion that the final judgement has not been given to this controversy. My Google alerts remind me everyday that the fear of hyper-Calvinism is uppermost on theologians minds. If it were a settled issue then there would be silence, however the daily roar of discussion alerts me to the fact that there is a deep undercurrent of doubt about the modern evangelistic and missionology of the Evangelical Church.
This issue with Bellevue speaks to me the providential hindrance of God with American fundamentalism. He has been a patient God for two hundred years and now the gavel is falling!
John M. Peck wrote in 1841 that Daniel Parker was an "uneducated, uncouth, slovenly dressed, diminutive in person, unprepossessing in appearance, with shriveled features and small piercing eyes." (Not a good description, eh) "With a zeal and enthusiasm bordering on insanity, firmness that amounted to obstinacy, and perseverance that would have done honor to a good cause."
He wrote, "Mr Parker is one of those singular beings whom Divine providence permits to arise as a scourge to his Church, and as a stumbling block in the way of religious effort."*
I don't believe that missionary Peck has the final say on judgement. He didn't live to see Bellevue Baptist nor hear the evangelism espoused from that Baptist pulpit.
* A History of the Christian Church, Lars P. Qualben, Thomas nelson and Sons, 1933, 68 p. 560 This is not to mean I endorse Two Seeds theology. Perhaps this has the seeds of Manicheanism as many have implied.
October 10, 2008
188 Years Later . . .
Men were opposed to Baptist associations and they were labeled anti mission agitators. Perhaps I am the only person who views the mess Adrian Rogers left as his legacy as proof of what these agitators claimed would result from these "newfangled" views.
1) These associations are man-made and contrary to scripture.
2) Associations usurp the authority of Christ over His Church. He alone calls men and assigns them to their fields.
3) Associations violate the independence of the local Church.
4) A Paid ministry is like a modern Tetzel, or like the money changers whom Christ drove out of the temple.
5) The better educated ministers overshadow the less educated and unpaid preachers.
6) These associations are schemes of Arminianism, prompted by desire for money and fame. *
Several Sundays ago my pastor made the statement, "William Carey went for seven years without a convert in India." This is a popular brag by Baptist. It supposedly demonstrates humility and trust in God! I think it demonstrates a strong self determination! Needless to say I approached the pastors at the close of the 8AM service and ask them, "How many souls did John Ryland Sr baptize during that seven year period?" Neither of the pastors knew who Ryland was until I refreshed their memory. He was the elder Calvinist who said to Carey when he made a request to go on the mission field, "young man sit down, God will convert the heathen when he pleases" (paraphrased quote) My pastor laughed at me when I said that my sympathies were with Ryland rather than Carey. "I believe that we should be reliant on the Holy Spirit to guide us." He said, well Charles I have to disagree with you but we are still "friends". I walked away wondering if everyone who expresses an opposing view gets laughed at.
to be continued...
* A History of the Christian Church, Lars P. Qualben, Thomas nelson and Sons, 1933, 68 p. 560
My Church History textbook in college.
1) These associations are man-made and contrary to scripture.
2) Associations usurp the authority of Christ over His Church. He alone calls men and assigns them to their fields.
3) Associations violate the independence of the local Church.
4) A Paid ministry is like a modern Tetzel, or like the money changers whom Christ drove out of the temple.
5) The better educated ministers overshadow the less educated and unpaid preachers.
6) These associations are schemes of Arminianism, prompted by desire for money and fame. *
Several Sundays ago my pastor made the statement, "William Carey went for seven years without a convert in India." This is a popular brag by Baptist. It supposedly demonstrates humility and trust in God! I think it demonstrates a strong self determination! Needless to say I approached the pastors at the close of the 8AM service and ask them, "How many souls did John Ryland Sr baptize during that seven year period?" Neither of the pastors knew who Ryland was until I refreshed their memory. He was the elder Calvinist who said to Carey when he made a request to go on the mission field, "young man sit down, God will convert the heathen when he pleases" (paraphrased quote) My pastor laughed at me when I said that my sympathies were with Ryland rather than Carey. "I believe that we should be reliant on the Holy Spirit to guide us." He said, well Charles I have to disagree with you but we are still "friends". I walked away wondering if everyone who expresses an opposing view gets laughed at.
to be continued...
* A History of the Christian Church, Lars P. Qualben, Thomas nelson and Sons, 1933, 68 p. 560
My Church History textbook in college.
October 9, 2008
The Mess That Was Left...
"I came to you preaching in the wisdom of lofty words and skillful phrases. My posture and gestures spoke of my resolve and power. I demonstrated boldness and courage about my convictions. I was not weak nor trembled before you."
But oh, the tangled web he left. He died and soon questions arose. One after another. The well-managed palace is crumbling after his departure. He sits in heaven watching. His goods are being plundered!
What will the final analysis be? You cannot operate without the power of the Holy Spirit!
October 8, 2008
A Lot Of Questions
The Bellevue Investigation committee reported that Paul Williams had confided in a former retired staff member who had since died. Elmer Bailey had to be that staff member. This still needs to be verified but since the investigation didn't give full dis closer only assumptions can be made.
Apparently he was working with Germantown Baptist at the time. He and his wife had a rich career covering local and national exposure. The question I have is why wouldn't he go to Adrian Rogers with the information. He must have counseled Paul Williams to keep it quiet or Paul himself requested Bailey's confidence. Surely the right thing to have done was to warn Rogers as to this criminal act. Why didn't it occur to him to go to the authorities? Didn't the fact that this was the rape of a young child affect Bailey at all? Could Bailey approach Rogers or was it a case of intentionally not approaching him.
Did the Investigation committee ask questions about this situation and the legal ramifications of not going to the authorities?
Also the other question is the $500,000 settlement to the staff member. Again the lack of dis- closer obscures the truth. That is a lot of money for a man having an affair and embezzlement.
A court would have supported Bellevue. It seems to me that the whole truth has not come out about this. Was this man being paid to keep silent?
Would Rogers tell Sorrell to handle this and keep him (Rogers) out of the details?
Would you want your tithes and offerings to go toward this?
Apparently he was working with Germantown Baptist at the time. He and his wife had a rich career covering local and national exposure. The question I have is why wouldn't he go to Adrian Rogers with the information. He must have counseled Paul Williams to keep it quiet or Paul himself requested Bailey's confidence. Surely the right thing to have done was to warn Rogers as to this criminal act. Why didn't it occur to him to go to the authorities? Didn't the fact that this was the rape of a young child affect Bailey at all? Could Bailey approach Rogers or was it a case of intentionally not approaching him.
Did the Investigation committee ask questions about this situation and the legal ramifications of not going to the authorities?
Also the other question is the $500,000 settlement to the staff member. Again the lack of dis- closer obscures the truth. That is a lot of money for a man having an affair and embezzlement.
A court would have supported Bellevue. It seems to me that the whole truth has not come out about this. Was this man being paid to keep silent?
Would Rogers tell Sorrell to handle this and keep him (Rogers) out of the details?
Would you want your tithes and offerings to go toward this?
October 7, 2008
Another NASS' Accusation
I am seeking credibility to the accusation that EB is Elmer Bailey and he is the retired staff, now deceased, who Paul Williams confided in.
added: "After Dr. Pollard became Pastor of Bellevue in 1960, Rev. Bailey became Bellevue's Associate Pastor and Minister of Education, and served in that position until retirement in 1981, totaling 22 years with two Southern Baptist Convention presidents, Dr. Ramsey Pollard and Dr. Adrian Rogers. During the years at Bellevue, Rev. Bailey and his talented wife Virginia led the church in strong educational and outreach programs. They will long be remembered for the scripts they wrote and parts they played in Bellevue's Singing Christmas Tree, Living Pictures, Memphis Passion Play, Celebrate America, and others.
Elmer Bailey became recognized in the Southern Baptist Convention as one of its most talented and effective church leaders. He led educational and church growth conferences throughout the nation, including conferences at Ridgecrest and Glorieta Baptist Assemblies. A fellow educational director and devoted friend, Henry Love, wrote the following for the Preface of Rev. Bailey's autobiography: "Over the past-half century Elmer Bailey has served in a wide range of ministry positions—religious educator, associate pastor, staff coordinator, church administrator, and musician. Elmer is a personable and caring individual and is abundantly qualified by education, experience, personality and dedication to Jesus Christ."
Rev. Bailey served the Shelby- Baptist Association, the Tennessee Baptist Convention, and Southern Baptist Convention in positions and offices too numerous to list. In 1988 he received the Distinguished Service Award for Outstanding Service with the Southern Baptist Religious Education Association.
Following retirement in 1982, Rev. Bailey launched a new ministry—Church Growth Basics, designed to assist churches in the areas of growth, Sunday School enlargement, and church administration. He also served as interim pastor and minister of education in churches in Mississippi, Tennessee, Florida, and Arkansas. His last tenure on a church staff was that of Staff Coordinator at Germantown Baptist Church, 1987-1990, where Dr. Ken Story was Pastor. For several years Rev. Bailey served as an adjunct professor at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary." Rev. Elmer Bailey
added: "After Dr. Pollard became Pastor of Bellevue in 1960, Rev. Bailey became Bellevue's Associate Pastor and Minister of Education, and served in that position until retirement in 1981, totaling 22 years with two Southern Baptist Convention presidents, Dr. Ramsey Pollard and Dr. Adrian Rogers. During the years at Bellevue, Rev. Bailey and his talented wife Virginia led the church in strong educational and outreach programs. They will long be remembered for the scripts they wrote and parts they played in Bellevue's Singing Christmas Tree, Living Pictures, Memphis Passion Play, Celebrate America, and others.
Elmer Bailey became recognized in the Southern Baptist Convention as one of its most talented and effective church leaders. He led educational and church growth conferences throughout the nation, including conferences at Ridgecrest and Glorieta Baptist Assemblies. A fellow educational director and devoted friend, Henry Love, wrote the following for the Preface of Rev. Bailey's autobiography: "Over the past-half century Elmer Bailey has served in a wide range of ministry positions—religious educator, associate pastor, staff coordinator, church administrator, and musician. Elmer is a personable and caring individual and is abundantly qualified by education, experience, personality and dedication to Jesus Christ."
Rev. Bailey served the Shelby- Baptist Association, the Tennessee Baptist Convention, and Southern Baptist Convention in positions and offices too numerous to list. In 1988 he received the Distinguished Service Award for Outstanding Service with the Southern Baptist Religious Education Association.
Following retirement in 1982, Rev. Bailey launched a new ministry—Church Growth Basics, designed to assist churches in the areas of growth, Sunday School enlargement, and church administration. He also served as interim pastor and minister of education in churches in Mississippi, Tennessee, Florida, and Arkansas. His last tenure on a church staff was that of Staff Coordinator at Germantown Baptist Church, 1987-1990, where Dr. Ken Story was Pastor. For several years Rev. Bailey served as an adjunct professor at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary." Rev. Elmer Bailey
October 6, 2008
Verification Of NASS' Accusation Of Wrongdoing
NASS made this claim on The Cakes Report, September 27, 2008 12:51 PM
"You know what? I totally agree! After all, about 10 years ago, when a certain staff minister was caught embezzling money from the church and doing other things he shouldn't have been doing, AR fired him. Then when he couldn't get a job at the seminary because BBC gave him a bad recommendation, he turned around and sued the church for "defamation of character." Instead of standing their ground (what court in the land wouldn't side with BBC in this matter?), AR reportedly had the church pay him off to the tune of $500,000. After all, we wouldn't want the great Bellevue to suffer any "negative publicity." In this case, I believe AR was wrong."
Is this a true story and can it be verified? Could AR fire a staff member and could the treasurer issue a payment to an out-of-court settlement without a Church called business meeting?
This needs clarification.
added: "For 21 years as Associate Pastor for the 28,000 member Bellevue Baptist Church, pastored by Adrian Rogers, his ministerial and administrative responsibility was the direction of the entire program and staff. During this time he also counseled scores of pastors, consulted with numerous churches, and conducted many church leadership retreats. His service outside his church included various denominational committee assignments, including terms of service with the Executive Committee and Annuity Board of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Prior to his call into the ministry, Bob served in engineering, manufacturing, and corporate management for 21 years as a Christian layman. At the same time, he served three churches, from the very small to the very large, as a lay leader including Chairman of Deacons for each." Rev Bob Sorrell (thanks to Anonymous)
"You know what? I totally agree! After all, about 10 years ago, when a certain staff minister was caught embezzling money from the church and doing other things he shouldn't have been doing, AR fired him. Then when he couldn't get a job at the seminary because BBC gave him a bad recommendation, he turned around and sued the church for "defamation of character." Instead of standing their ground (what court in the land wouldn't side with BBC in this matter?), AR reportedly had the church pay him off to the tune of $500,000. After all, we wouldn't want the great Bellevue to suffer any "negative publicity." In this case, I believe AR was wrong."
Is this a true story and can it be verified? Could AR fire a staff member and could the treasurer issue a payment to an out-of-court settlement without a Church called business meeting?
This needs clarification.
added: "For 21 years as Associate Pastor for the 28,000 member Bellevue Baptist Church, pastored by Adrian Rogers, his ministerial and administrative responsibility was the direction of the entire program and staff. During this time he also counseled scores of pastors, consulted with numerous churches, and conducted many church leadership retreats. His service outside his church included various denominational committee assignments, including terms of service with the Executive Committee and Annuity Board of the Southern Baptist Convention.
Prior to his call into the ministry, Bob served in engineering, manufacturing, and corporate management for 21 years as a Christian layman. At the same time, he served three churches, from the very small to the very large, as a lay leader including Chairman of Deacons for each." Rev Bob Sorrell (thanks to Anonymous)
Money Can't Buy Me Love, No, No, No, No
...but you can purchase discipleship! Money can't make you a disciple, only the Holy Spirit can, but it can purchase a close facsimile to discipleship.
Money can buy you an Internet porn blocker and you can get an accountability partner to guard your behavior. It will not buy software to keep erotic images from being embedded in your heart's hard drive. You have a built in system to process normal images into eroticism. This is a gift from God to replenish the earth through the venue of matrimony. As a Christian you are not delivered from this process. As a Christian man only glorification will separate you from the process.
As a young man I listened to Wesleyan Holiness preaching about lust. The illustration of the spider and its web was used. They said much of Christianity consisted in cleaning up the 'cobwebs' left by the spider, however Wesleyan sanctification consisted in destroying the spider that spins the webs. This spider inside us is a combination of wheat and tares. If you destroy the tares you destroy the wheat. The sin of lust is so destructive that if necessary you could destroy the spider because any measure to avoid hell would have merit. (Matthew 5:29-30) As Jesus implied, that would represent an ideal not to be taken literally.
Jesus taught that the heart is deceptively filled with adulterous thoughts and therein lies the sin.
We are sinners saved by grace. Our sanctification consist in guarding the improper eye and hand coordination outside the proper gift of God. Admitting that tares grow among our wheat; casting off pretensions that we are above it all is a great step toward righteous living.
Confessing that this is a "heart issue" and not just a behavior problem causes us to turn our dependence on the Holy Spirit to purify us and provide internal accountability. He applies the Word in discipleship as we consider the wisdom of proven teachers. Our accountability must be the Holy Spirit and we don't have to spend money to buy programs that only serve to line the pockets of the rabbinate.
How in the world did we get to the mess of today's evangelical confusion of baptizing, teaching and discipleship. Teaching and disciplining are confused. A disciple is taught not discipled. Disciple is a noun and teaching is a verb. The earthly part of discipleship is baptism. We make disciples (actually confirm) by baptism. The Holy Spirit disciples personally each individual.
As it is now there are so many rabbis mentoring in so many different ways hindering the work of the Spirit who consistently applies the Word.
Your mentor could be a pervert! Your mentor could facilitate perversion! You can rest assured that if your mentor is successful he is wealthy!
Money can buy you an Internet porn blocker and you can get an accountability partner to guard your behavior. It will not buy software to keep erotic images from being embedded in your heart's hard drive. You have a built in system to process normal images into eroticism. This is a gift from God to replenish the earth through the venue of matrimony. As a Christian you are not delivered from this process. As a Christian man only glorification will separate you from the process.
As a young man I listened to Wesleyan Holiness preaching about lust. The illustration of the spider and its web was used. They said much of Christianity consisted in cleaning up the 'cobwebs' left by the spider, however Wesleyan sanctification consisted in destroying the spider that spins the webs. This spider inside us is a combination of wheat and tares. If you destroy the tares you destroy the wheat. The sin of lust is so destructive that if necessary you could destroy the spider because any measure to avoid hell would have merit. (Matthew 5:29-30) As Jesus implied, that would represent an ideal not to be taken literally.
Jesus taught that the heart is deceptively filled with adulterous thoughts and therein lies the sin.
We are sinners saved by grace. Our sanctification consist in guarding the improper eye and hand coordination outside the proper gift of God. Admitting that tares grow among our wheat; casting off pretensions that we are above it all is a great step toward righteous living.
Confessing that this is a "heart issue" and not just a behavior problem causes us to turn our dependence on the Holy Spirit to purify us and provide internal accountability. He applies the Word in discipleship as we consider the wisdom of proven teachers. Our accountability must be the Holy Spirit and we don't have to spend money to buy programs that only serve to line the pockets of the rabbinate.
How in the world did we get to the mess of today's evangelical confusion of baptizing, teaching and discipleship. Teaching and disciplining are confused. A disciple is taught not discipled. Disciple is a noun and teaching is a verb. The earthly part of discipleship is baptism. We make disciples (actually confirm) by baptism. The Holy Spirit disciples personally each individual.
As it is now there are so many rabbis mentoring in so many different ways hindering the work of the Spirit who consistently applies the Word.
Your mentor could be a pervert! Your mentor could facilitate perversion! You can rest assured that if your mentor is successful he is wealthy!
October 5, 2008
There Is A Snake On The Path!!!
On the evening of June 21, 2006 I was walking my dog, Roscoe, on the wagon trail that leads to Johnson Park in Collierville. There was a big snake directly in my path so close that my next step would have been on it. I wasn't looking down and to get my attention it squiggled on the asphalt. I looked down and stopped quickly to see a four foot snake with it's head raised upright about four inches. We made eye to eye contact and it was not going to move. My dog never reacted at all and I quickly pulled him away to avoid a possible dog-snake confrontation. I guess I had quickly surmised that as close as I had been to the snake it would have bitten me if it were a biting snake. Strangely enough I had been studying the Bible about being wise as serpents and harmless as doves in obedience to Christ. Snakes had been on my mind and my first thought as I encountered this snake was that there was a serpent in the garden.I was far enough from the snake that there was no danger and I thought that it would just move on across the path and we could continue our walk. But it just remained there maintaining eye contact with me and the dog still did not see or at least react to it.
If the snake was not going to move then I just determined to go on back toward home but thought "what if someone comes along and does not see the snake." I stayed there and two ladies came up the path on bicycles. I was afraid that they might hit the snake and cause them to fall off the bikes onto the snake. The first lady came up the path and like a crazy old man I was waving my arms telling her to stop. She ignored me and came on so I motioned her to stay on the far right hand side to miss the snake. Instead she stopped and straddled her bike right beside the snake which had not moved. She looked down and said "I don't see a snake"! The other lady slowed down and said, "I don't see a snake." I was still looking right at the snake and it was looking at me!
From the other direction came a group of teenagers who had a flashlight and I warned them not to go as there was a snake in the path. Naturally they all rushed to see the snake. They returned back to me saying there was not a snake!
Everyone laughs when I tell this true story but it has a spiritual point. If you are a sinner then the god of this world has you blinded to the truth. The dangers of sin are so great and we are blinded to its path of destruction. Our sinfulness is so total that we cannot on our own see our way out. We are lost without hope apart from Christ.
However at this point in time with my farewell to the "friends" on The Cakes Report, Bratton Report and NBBCOF there is a blindness that seems to come from God. A strange blindness that keeps the truth from being given. Perhaps to keep them from coming to the truth themselves or to keep them from hindering others from coming to the truth.
Anyway there was a real snake on that path. It made a noise to get my attention. All these other people who didn't see the snake could evidence the fact that the snake was just an illusion on my part, however way you wish to interpret it, I can only say I saw a snake and I tried to warn folks to keep them from harm! They would not listen.
October 2, 2008
Latent Pelagianism
Adrian Rogers held a theological view that was no help for Paul Williams. Some people are beyond the help of discipline. Paul Williams harbors a tortured soul. He has a psycho sexual disorder. He has a psychopathic personality.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
When I was young I heard the words from the pulpits: "...a form of godliness but deny the power thereof." That is what our preachers would say about Adrian Rogers. He had a form of godliness to build a great church and an international radio and TV ministry but he lacked the power to help Paul Williams. The result was a post death catastrophe that has marred his legacy.
It seems to me there is latent Pelagianism in Dr Rogers theology and that contributes to his naivete. He and Joyce built a fence around themselves that kept out the negative elements. He allowed others to deal with the problems, not a complementary statement for him. He was a benevolent dictator who could financially construct a naive worldview. The very man who led the SBC in the battle for the Bible left us with the contradiction of how can a good man, Paul Williams, embrace such perverse evil. He left us suffering with a biblical enigma. He muddied the waters of what the Bible teaches about human depravity and the root of evil. When we should rely on the Bible for our reasoning we have a Bible depending on human reasoning.
Perhaps God has allowed Paul Williams to be a demonstration of this human reasoning.
The discipline that Dr Rogers and by extension most of the American evangelical world can be purchased with money! With money you can purchase a "bsafe" program. If you have money you have friends and they will assist you in accountability. You can buy books and software to built a fence about yourself. With mental ability you can construct a "success" spiritual outlook.
Today's discipleship is a pyramidal industry. It can be purchased from Florida or Colorado, on-line or by mail. At all levels of the pyramid you will have to give money under the pretense of giving to God.
None of this fits in with an exercise unto godliness. I Tim 4:6-10 It is the bodily exercise that has some earthly value in this life but it offers nothing for the life to come. This exercise failed with Paul Williams and I am sure he spent enough money to purchase the product. After all he sat under the master disciplier. I mean who would not want to have sat personally with Dr Rogers and be discipled!
Who disciples me? The Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
When I was young I heard the words from the pulpits: "...a form of godliness but deny the power thereof." That is what our preachers would say about Adrian Rogers. He had a form of godliness to build a great church and an international radio and TV ministry but he lacked the power to help Paul Williams. The result was a post death catastrophe that has marred his legacy.
It seems to me there is latent Pelagianism in Dr Rogers theology and that contributes to his naivete. He and Joyce built a fence around themselves that kept out the negative elements. He allowed others to deal with the problems, not a complementary statement for him. He was a benevolent dictator who could financially construct a naive worldview. The very man who led the SBC in the battle for the Bible left us with the contradiction of how can a good man, Paul Williams, embrace such perverse evil. He left us suffering with a biblical enigma. He muddied the waters of what the Bible teaches about human depravity and the root of evil. When we should rely on the Bible for our reasoning we have a Bible depending on human reasoning.
Perhaps God has allowed Paul Williams to be a demonstration of this human reasoning.
The discipline that Dr Rogers and by extension most of the American evangelical world can be purchased with money! With money you can purchase a "bsafe" program. If you have money you have friends and they will assist you in accountability. You can buy books and software to built a fence about yourself. With mental ability you can construct a "success" spiritual outlook.
Today's discipleship is a pyramidal industry. It can be purchased from Florida or Colorado, on-line or by mail. At all levels of the pyramid you will have to give money under the pretense of giving to God.
None of this fits in with an exercise unto godliness. I Tim 4:6-10 It is the bodily exercise that has some earthly value in this life but it offers nothing for the life to come. This exercise failed with Paul Williams and I am sure he spent enough money to purchase the product. After all he sat under the master disciplier. I mean who would not want to have sat personally with Dr Rogers and be discipled!
Who disciples me? The Holy Spirit.
NASS And The Naïveté Of Adrian Rogers
"Why didn't AR know? We don't know. I think, and this is my opinion only, that he was in some ways naive. Why else would he surround himself with some of the men he did, let himself be used by Patterson and Pressler, think Steve Gaines was so wonderful (when many of us saw through him from the beginning), endorse Rick Warren's PDC, or affix his name (see the Board of Reference) to this idiocy? He was also insulated, probably by choice. The philosophy around BBC when AR was there was that they didn't tell him anything negative. He didn't want to hear it. The answer to why he didn't know about PW is, I don't know. And neither do you.I suppose your answer will be that the Holy Spirit didn't tell him because of his semi-whatever theology. I've stated what I think was one issue with AR. I think he was naive, and I'm sure Paul Williams was always on his best behavior around Dr. Rogers, too. You've been around BBC indirectly through your family (more about that later) for what, at least 7 years now? Surely during that time you at least saw Paul Williams somewhere around the church. (Hope he was never alone with those precious grandchildren of yours. Ever lie awake at night and wonder about that?) Why didn't YOU "discern" he was a pervert? Why didn't YOU get a "word of knowledge" about PW?" The Cakes Report Sept 27, 12:51 PM
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
Posts
