Is God free to love anyone He wants?
edit to add: Yes
November 30, 2008
November 29, 2008
Do you not know that wisdom begins with fearing the Lord? Have you no fear?
Yes Ace, I have fear! I stood in the middle of the street with my dog and heard the angry voice of God ordering Adrian Rogers to "sit in this chair and watch your Bellevue crumble and be destroyed." That struck fear in me and subsequent revelations have deepened my fear. There will be many ministers there crying unto the Lord for mercy. "Lord Lord, didn't we faithfully preach your word?"
I live with this revelation everyday, Ace, I don't have any confidence in the message being preached from America's pulpits. My voice is not alone in this. Multitudes are crying for the word. They know they are not hearing from the Lord!
Ace, there is not a work of righteousness, not in the least, to merit our salvation. We are saved by grace. It is a free gift of God. He chooses us for redemption and not by any merit on our part. We do not come to him by faith or repentance he comes to us in regeneration. He does not offer us any enablement so that we can approach him. God takes total pleasure in gifting us with his grace. If our testimony to grace implies that we were seeking and we wanted to be saved then we have deprived the father of his pleasure.
Sheep seem to be the meekest of all God's created animals but when one is lost from the fold by straying into difficulties the shepherd has to retrieve it by force. The sheep will not come to him the shepherd goes to it. It will flee it's rescuer. "Not one will be lost!" says the shepherd.
When the seemingly meekest American preacher clarifies the doctrines for this present age, and defines beliefs against the backdrop of modern confusion and a rising generation of Baptists recognize the significance of these biblical doctrines, assume this is their Baptist heritage and own this confession of faith for themselves they should not be surprised when rotten fruit are produced.
Do you not believe that corrupt fruit is produced by a corrupt tree? Do you not believe the woes pronounced unto those who call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter?
I live with this revelation everyday, Ace, I don't have any confidence in the message being preached from America's pulpits. My voice is not alone in this. Multitudes are crying for the word. They know they are not hearing from the Lord!
Ace, there is not a work of righteousness, not in the least, to merit our salvation. We are saved by grace. It is a free gift of God. He chooses us for redemption and not by any merit on our part. We do not come to him by faith or repentance he comes to us in regeneration. He does not offer us any enablement so that we can approach him. God takes total pleasure in gifting us with his grace. If our testimony to grace implies that we were seeking and we wanted to be saved then we have deprived the father of his pleasure.
Sheep seem to be the meekest of all God's created animals but when one is lost from the fold by straying into difficulties the shepherd has to retrieve it by force. The sheep will not come to him the shepherd goes to it. It will flee it's rescuer. "Not one will be lost!" says the shepherd.
When the seemingly meekest American preacher clarifies the doctrines for this present age, and defines beliefs against the backdrop of modern confusion and a rising generation of Baptists recognize the significance of these biblical doctrines, assume this is their Baptist heritage and own this confession of faith for themselves they should not be surprised when rotten fruit are produced.
Do you not believe that corrupt fruit is produced by a corrupt tree? Do you not believe the woes pronounced unto those who call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter?
November 24, 2008
Dear Southern Baptist
From the Chairman of the Committee on the Baptist Faith and Message, Adrian Rogers
2. In the context of modern denials of the omniscience, exhaustive foreknowledge, and omnipotence of God, we have reaffirmed the teachings of the Bible and the consistent teaching of our Baptist tradition, as reflected in Article II: "God."
God has all knowledge. He knows all things simultaneously. His knowledge is immediate, without the process of thought, reason, or inference. His foreknowledge of events does not necessarily mean that He predetermined them. He knows the workings of his natural, physical, moral, and spiritual laws which work toward definite ends. Man is free to choose in the light of them, but is responsible for his choices. God knows these choices beforehand, but does not predetermine them. Herschel H. Hobbs, The Baptist Faith and Message (1971), p. 36.
"His foreknowledge of events does not necessarily mean that He predetermined them."
My Jehovah Witness friend says God willfully chooses not to know what our choices are. In fact he says that God does not have that foreknowledge. Adrian Rogers says that God has the foreknowledge but has not predetermined our choices.
Systematic Theology affirms strongly the incommunicable attributes of God. God is without any limitations. He does not submit himself to any limitations. Self-existence and immutability confirms this.
Any thought that denies the ability of God to know or do anything flies in the face of scripture and all who have sought diligently to clarify theology.
Rogers says: "In the context of modern denials of the omniscience, exhaustive foreknowledge, and omnipotence of God, we have reaffirmed the teachings of the Bible and the consistent teaching of our Baptist tradition. . .God has all knowledge. He knows all things simultaneously. His knowledge is immediate, without the process of thought, reason, or inference. " That is a clear concise statement to make.
However his next statement contradicts the first. " His foreknowledge of events does not necessarily mean that He predetermined them. God knows these choices beforehand, but does not predetermine them. " Now he is practically saying the same thing as my Jehovah Witness friend. There are strong similarities of SBC to Jehovah Witness beliefs!
Actually Adrian Rogers knows a fool would be saying what he just said so he acknowledges the source of this absurdity to Herschel H. Hobbs who is dead at this time.
However this absurd and foolish statement has to be said! Why! Why does it have to be said?
Why put the words in the mouth of a dead man! Because this falsehood is the foundation of the next falsehood. "Man is free to choose in the light of them, but is responsible for his choices. God knows these choices beforehand, but does not predetermine them." In order to establish vibrant worldwide evangelism, Baptist tradition has to be disposed and a satisfaction of the demands of modern humanism must take place!
This is the foundation of a false gospel and another gospel foreign to the Bible.
2. In the context of modern denials of the omniscience, exhaustive foreknowledge, and omnipotence of God, we have reaffirmed the teachings of the Bible and the consistent teaching of our Baptist tradition, as reflected in Article II: "God."
God has all knowledge. He knows all things simultaneously. His knowledge is immediate, without the process of thought, reason, or inference. His foreknowledge of events does not necessarily mean that He predetermined them. He knows the workings of his natural, physical, moral, and spiritual laws which work toward definite ends. Man is free to choose in the light of them, but is responsible for his choices. God knows these choices beforehand, but does not predetermine them. Herschel H. Hobbs, The Baptist Faith and Message (1971), p. 36.
"His foreknowledge of events does not necessarily mean that He predetermined them."
My Jehovah Witness friend says God willfully chooses not to know what our choices are. In fact he says that God does not have that foreknowledge. Adrian Rogers says that God has the foreknowledge but has not predetermined our choices.
Systematic Theology affirms strongly the incommunicable attributes of God. God is without any limitations. He does not submit himself to any limitations. Self-existence and immutability confirms this.
Any thought that denies the ability of God to know or do anything flies in the face of scripture and all who have sought diligently to clarify theology.
Rogers says: "In the context of modern denials of the omniscience, exhaustive foreknowledge, and omnipotence of God, we have reaffirmed the teachings of the Bible and the consistent teaching of our Baptist tradition. . .God has all knowledge. He knows all things simultaneously. His knowledge is immediate, without the process of thought, reason, or inference. " That is a clear concise statement to make.
However his next statement contradicts the first. " His foreknowledge of events does not necessarily mean that He predetermined them. God knows these choices beforehand, but does not predetermine them. " Now he is practically saying the same thing as my Jehovah Witness friend. There are strong similarities of SBC to Jehovah Witness beliefs!
Actually Adrian Rogers knows a fool would be saying what he just said so he acknowledges the source of this absurdity to Herschel H. Hobbs who is dead at this time.
However this absurd and foolish statement has to be said! Why! Why does it have to be said?
Why put the words in the mouth of a dead man! Because this falsehood is the foundation of the next falsehood. "Man is free to choose in the light of them, but is responsible for his choices. God knows these choices beforehand, but does not predetermine them." In order to establish vibrant worldwide evangelism, Baptist tradition has to be disposed and a satisfaction of the demands of modern humanism must take place!
This is the foundation of a false gospel and another gospel foreign to the Bible.
November 23, 2008
First Cars
My father's first car, Ford Model A and my first, 1961 Ford Galaxie Starliner, 352, four barrel. I changed the two barrel for a four barrel carb.
Tribute To John Mark
On Solomon's blog is a post on "The Passing Of An Unlikely Friend" John Mark who was a familiar commenter on several blogs dealing with Bellevue Baptist. He recently passed away and Solomon has posted an excellent tribute to John. I always liked John Mark and recognized the quality of his comments. He could be jagged and compassionate. I appreciated his honesty. We will miss him. John: rest in peace.
John 'Arminius' Mark
John 'Arminius' MarkA Blogging Intermission
Several years ago I was driving on Huston Levee road heading south toward Collierville. At that time construction was beginning for a new four lane highway. The old road leading from Macon Road was a winding road with some good tight curves. I was driving my old Bonneville behind these two identical white Cobras. Older men were driving and both were bumper to bumper hanging into the curves. They were not really racing but obviously enjoying their drive. I tried my best to stay up with them knowing that these were two classic cars. Watching these two cars
accelerating into curves and seemingly jockeying for a possible pass was exhilarating to an old man like me who grew up in the sixties with "real muscle cars." I was doing my best to keep up in order to see it all. There are some tight curves in places and these two cars hugged them with ease. My Bonneville fought to just stay on the right side of the road! I had to make a straight path while they stayed in their proper lanes.
Just before Wolf River Road which had just become a four lane intersection both cars stopped side by side at the red light. I came up behind in the right lane. They were talking to each other and throttling those big v-8 engines making the kind of music only a sixties guy would understand. I prayed! Oh did I pray! I ask God, "I am an old man who will not see this stuff anymore. I grew up with these kind of cars. Lord, let these men tromp these engines and smoke 'dem' tires, please." I am trembling with cold shivers as I type this.
The light turned green and they eased off for about four feet and then all hell broke loose as they jammed the pedal to the metal. Both cars surged and squatted as treaded tires bit into the pavement desperate for traction. The rubber screamed in anguish and burning tires smoked underneath. The rear ends twisted as both cars split the air with a roaring of full throttled engines. The precise mixture of air and gas exploding inside cylinders and forced out of manifolds into exhaust pipes made sounds like unto heavenly sounds. It is a man-thing!!
I jammed my foot into the floor of my car screaming like a man gone out of his mind. I could not catch them but man o man did God ever answer my prayer! We hear people say God supplies your needs and not your wants. They don't know squat about my God. There are times that He delights in seeing an old man one more time thrilled out of his mind. I gave God glory over and over and I have not stopped thanking Him for that little pleasure. This morning while driving my old F-150 to work I remembered that day and tears filled my eyes as I thought how much God loves me.
I shared with my manager my experience since he has a love for old classic cars and I told him about my tears and I looked up and there were tears in his eyes. he said, "I know what you mean."
Spare me the retorts. Wasting gas, breaking laws and driving too fast. Poor people who don't have nice cars. Hey I have a God who cares about me and my silliness and just maybe He gets excited about muscle cars!
November 22, 2008
Man, I am a good looking guy, for a boy who was maliciously assaulted by a pie in the face and traumatized for almost 50 years! What a good God to set me free from that attack and liberate me to be the outstanding man I am today. It is a credit to his grace and moves me to give him my all. I am blessed in appearance and heart! What a great God who chose me before I was hit with a pie, long before that! Before the foundations of the world was laid. He blessed me with good looks, too. Ladies, I am already taken, sorry. What a Calvinist!
Bold, Evangelistic, Spirit Filled, High Calvinist
Luke 4:18-19 (KJV) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.I am filled with the Holy Spirit and I speak as the Spirit gives me utterance. Acts 2:4
John 15:26-27 (KJV)But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
I am a 'narcissistic* Bapticostal'! I have the best of both worlds; true historical Baptist beliefs (that which the SBC seems to officially despise) and the utterance the Charismatics desire!
The Charismatics and Pentecostals need what the Baptist used to have, 200 years ago, and the Baptist need what they had 200 years ago and what the Charismatics and Pentecostals have now! Don't we all need the Spirit and the Word?
*anonymous source
November 21, 2008
Message To Billy Graham
Please, Dr Graham before you die and meet your maker, renounce the gospel you have preached. Renounce the "one percent that the believer has to exercise in order to be saved." Please tell everyone there is no work of righteousness that the believer can do to be saved.Tell them they are saved by grace alone. Tell them they are sinners under condemnation from birth. They are incapable of making a decision for Christ.
Quit this man made appeal and let the Holy Spirit do His work. Call the elect regenerate to obedience. Just preach Christ and Him crucified. Tell your son to do the same.
Please, don't face God with the message you have preached to the world! It is not too late.
November 20, 2008
Graham and Rogers, Inc.
"God does ninety-nine percent of it but you still must do that last one percent." Billy Graham
"The context of John 3 teaches that the new birth is something that God does for man when man is willing to yield to God", and "He gives the Holy Spirit to draw you to the cross, but even after all this, it is your decision whether to accept God's free pardon or to continue in your lost condition." (B. Graham, How To Be Born Again. Originally published 1977)
"Come to Jesus." - Adrian Rogers
Why can't these two great American preachers see the plain truth? It is not too late for Dr Graham to get it right!
In spite of our will we are saved. We are not wooed to the cross we are dragged, lifeless spiritually, physically resisting, to the Father. There is no self-merit in our salvation. The only reason an undeserving sinner can be brought to the Father is because of the cross! The sinner is declared justified by the Father and presented to His Son, a justified sinner. Christ will raise the sinner to glorification at the last day. John 6:44 You believed because you were elected to be a believer! Your choice does not determine your election.
"The context of John 3 teaches that the new birth is something that God does for man when man is willing to yield to God", and "He gives the Holy Spirit to draw you to the cross, but even after all this, it is your decision whether to accept God's free pardon or to continue in your lost condition." (B. Graham, How To Be Born Again. Originally published 1977)
"Come to Jesus." - Adrian Rogers
Why can't these two great American preachers see the plain truth? It is not too late for Dr Graham to get it right!
In spite of our will we are saved. We are not wooed to the cross we are dragged, lifeless spiritually, physically resisting, to the Father. There is no self-merit in our salvation. The only reason an undeserving sinner can be brought to the Father is because of the cross! The sinner is declared justified by the Father and presented to His Son, a justified sinner. Christ will raise the sinner to glorification at the last day. John 6:44 You believed because you were elected to be a believer! Your choice does not determine your election.
Rogers' Island
anonymous said Mon Nov 17, 07:05:00 PM 2008 on "Grace and truth to you" "A doctrine cannot be unscriptural without doing actual harm. God's way is right; man's way is wrong. And when the doctrine on the matter of salvation is wrong, it is certain to hinder the cause of Christ."
This statement sheds light on what has happened at Bellevue Baptist. Unquestionably the cause of Christ is hindered at Bellevue. Ignoring the "full" sovereignty of God and operating from an imaginary and mythological "island of righteousness" certainly hinders the cause of Christ as demonstrated by the saga of the history of Bellevue Baptist under the leadership of Adrian Rogers.
This statement sheds light on what has happened at Bellevue Baptist. Unquestionably the cause of Christ is hindered at Bellevue. Ignoring the "full" sovereignty of God and operating from an imaginary and mythological "island of righteousness" certainly hinders the cause of Christ as demonstrated by the saga of the history of Bellevue Baptist under the leadership of Adrian Rogers.
November 19, 2008
The Pelagian Captivity Of The Church
If you are interested in the "island of righteousness" go here. Very interesting read and thoroughly Calvinistic if you are wanting information.
OC Said I Was Just Asking For It!
oc said... here
"elbowing my way between the crowds..."Then you deserved the pie. You should have been more polite.Just sayin'.oc.
November 18, 2008 8:15 PM
Now where have we heard this before. Let see, she deserved to be raped she was just asking for it. The way she dressed no wonder she was raped.
What kind of statement is that: "Then you deserved the pie" I was picked out of the crowd because I was the least likely to put up any resistance. It was a cowardly act of a bully who knew I was defenseless to fight back! The bully was right!
OC, you are a bully! But your error is that I am not defenseless. You are a male chauvinist bully.
You use weak people to get your way. Your statement gives you away. You are truly a coward!
"elbowing my way between the crowds..."Then you deserved the pie. You should have been more polite.Just sayin'.oc.
November 18, 2008 8:15 PM
Now where have we heard this before. Let see, she deserved to be raped she was just asking for it. The way she dressed no wonder she was raped.
What kind of statement is that: "Then you deserved the pie" I was picked out of the crowd because I was the least likely to put up any resistance. It was a cowardly act of a bully who knew I was defenseless to fight back! The bully was right!
OC, you are a bully! But your error is that I am not defenseless. You are a male chauvinist bully.
You use weak people to get your way. Your statement gives you away. You are truly a coward!
November 18, 2008
My God Is A Good God!
For nearly half a century I lived under a cloud. I was afraid of what people would say about me. I was functional, I married a wonderful girl. We had two daughters. They married and we are a clan now. It was an eroding process in my life that left me every morning saying to myself in the shower, "I am so stupid." It was a habitual ritual, every morning. Banging my head on the shower wall, "Oh, I am so stupid."December 22, 2005 that all changed! Uninvited, God broke into my life like a thief in the night. It started as I was working with a Jehovah Witness in a 53 foot trailer early in the morning. We started talking about religion and BANG, I was nabbed by the Lord. The Lord had an assignment for me and this Jehovah Witness was it. The rest of the story I have related to you.
I was hit in the face with a pie. My personality was definitely arrested and I functioned under a cloud. I was living with a personality handicap. By New Years day 2006 I was set free from this cloud and I started to live the good life. I was a man at his best, my mind went into action and my spirit soared with boldness. I am now a bold, Spirit-filled, evangelistic (High) Calvinist!
Listen, I was a victim of a silly pie throwing stunt. Yes it was silly but it did damage to me and I would have carried that damage to my grave without ever knowing why life had to be such a struggle. I have forgiven my perpetrator. If I knew who he/she was I would rush to them and hug them! I love that person dearly. What they meant for evil has served a good purpose! God has prepared me for my remaining years to attain his exclusive purpose. That half century was not wasted years but preparation for his assignment.
My God is a good God!
November 16, 2008
Luke 4:18-19 (KJV) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
I am filled with the Holy Spirit and I speak as the Spirit gives me utterance.
John 15:26-27 (KJV)
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
This picture of me was taken January 2, 2006 in front of the Warren County court house in McMinnville, Tennessee. Forty eight years ago in this very spot I was hit in the face with a pie. A cloud hung over my life. My personality development was arrested and on December 22, 2005 The Holy Spirit began a supernatural healing to lift that cloud that surrounded me. December 30 I had a divine visitation from the Lord. The Holy Spirit swept me back as a twelve year old to the place of John 15. At the court house I was elbowing my way between the crowds to watch the city celebs get hit with a pie. Someone picked me out of the crowd and hit me in the face with a pie. Suddenly the focus of the event was me and there was a large crowd of people laughing at me. Forty eight years later I was escorted by the Holy Spirit back in time and was allowed to elbow my way between the apostles and hear the words of my Lord in John 15! The next day, new years eve about 11:45 PM, I was on my knees in front of my wife trying to explain all this to her. When suddenly out of nowhere came the words, "honey when I was a young boy I was hit in the face with a pie!" It was hidden in my memory. I had not told anyone. The next day a lot of exciting things happened. Wonderful things! I drove new year's evening back to McMinnville, 5 hours, got there at midnight and at 5AM in a thunderstorm I was marching around that courthouse hands lifted and praising God! Later that day using a Walmart disposable camera my dad snapped this picture.
Not an impressive picture is it? If you will look close into the face you will see a twelve year old boy trapped in a 59 year old body! I am filled to overflowing with the Holy Spirit. "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Bellevue Baptist Could Learn From The Memphis GLBT
In May I sent an e-mail to a representative of the Memphis GLBT Community:
"I have a question that perplexes me constantly. It concerns the situation with Bellevue Baptist's response to it's own associate sexually abusing his own young son for 12-18 months and being dismissed as just a "moral failure". Given their conservative slant they failed to act accordingly. The "moral failure" was a crime and the son did not pursue criminal charges, the Church did not treat the issue as a crime. The state investigated and we have not heard the result from them.
I have ask a diverse number of people from many walks of life and I would like to hear your response.
This was the answer ("The opinions in the GLBT community are as varied as the people therein. The above sentiments are mine and mine alone.")
"The problems of pedophilia and ephebophilia are ones that span all sexual and gender orientations. The occurrence you reference happens to be about an adult and a child of the same gender. These occurrences often do not occur within a same gender context and consequently I cannot consider these terrible incidents primarily GLBT issues. But being a human being, I cannot help but have strong feelings of disgust when I learn that the basic inequity of power that is present between an adult and a minor is exploited by the adult.
So I am conflicted. From one perspective, I do not wish to pass judgment on this denomination and this particular church's handling of this affair. From another perspective, however, I am deeply grieved by the pain of the child involved. When learning of this incident, I made a personal choice to leave it to the authorities who are, hopefully, better able to help this child in this incident and address the larger issues as well.
Fortunately, there are many denominations that have long decided to deal successfully with both matters ... First, they have resolved the matter of giving GLBT persons their rightful place in the church community. Second, they have resolved the entirely separate matter of child and minor sexual abuse by following a rigid adherence to a zero tolerance policy and a policy of immediate reporting to authorities. The churches, synagogues and mosques that have done both have my deepest respect.
"I have a question that perplexes me constantly. It concerns the situation with Bellevue Baptist's response to it's own associate sexually abusing his own young son for 12-18 months and being dismissed as just a "moral failure". Given their conservative slant they failed to act accordingly. The "moral failure" was a crime and the son did not pursue criminal charges, the Church did not treat the issue as a crime. The state investigated and we have not heard the result from them.
I have ask a diverse number of people from many walks of life and I would like to hear your response.
This was the answer ("The opinions in the GLBT community are as varied as the people therein. The above sentiments are mine and mine alone.")
"The problems of pedophilia and ephebophilia are ones that span all sexual and gender orientations. The occurrence you reference happens to be about an adult and a child of the same gender. These occurrences often do not occur within a same gender context and consequently I cannot consider these terrible incidents primarily GLBT issues. But being a human being, I cannot help but have strong feelings of disgust when I learn that the basic inequity of power that is present between an adult and a minor is exploited by the adult.
So I am conflicted. From one perspective, I do not wish to pass judgment on this denomination and this particular church's handling of this affair. From another perspective, however, I am deeply grieved by the pain of the child involved. When learning of this incident, I made a personal choice to leave it to the authorities who are, hopefully, better able to help this child in this incident and address the larger issues as well.
Fortunately, there are many denominations that have long decided to deal successfully with both matters ... First, they have resolved the matter of giving GLBT persons their rightful place in the church community. Second, they have resolved the entirely separate matter of child and minor sexual abuse by following a rigid adherence to a zero tolerance policy and a policy of immediate reporting to authorities. The churches, synagogues and mosques that have done both have my deepest respect.
November 15, 2008
"Woe Is Me!"
"In the beginning man was innocent of sin and was endowed by his Creator with freedom of choice. By his free choice man sinned against God and brought sin into the human race. Through the temptation of Satan man transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original innocence whereby his posterity inherit a nature and an environment inclined toward sin. Therefore, as soon as they are capable of moral action, they become transgressors and are under condemnation. Only the grace of God can bring man into His holy fellowship and enable man to fulfill the creative purpose of God." BF&M Man III
The SBC teaches the age of accountability as the age when one can accept Christ as Savior. It is the time when a person is aware of his own sinfulness and will transgress the law of God. Contrary to this is the orthodox belief of original sin. Adam's sin is transmitted to his descendants by inheritance. Romans 5:12, 18-19. We are born into a state of sin and are under condemnation at birth and not at a latter age of accountability. This is a contracted state as a result of Adam's committed act. An infant is under condemnation not because of his act but Adam's. Through Christ the regenerated have peace with God and are not under condemnation but they do live every day till death with the presence of potential sin. Through Christ's provision for Justification the believer has access to grace to stand against this daily possibility of sinning. He can be victorious against this possibility and if he fails he has an advocate before the Holy God. He has forgiveness. This is the teaching on original sin contrary to what Adrian Rogers preached.
The Church's teaching on original sin carried from the apostles was challenged in the fifth century by Pelagius. He taught that man could by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life. This teaching was declared a heresy by the Church. The Church has not followed this ruling and today in American Evangelicalism Pelagianism has reared it's ugly head. Joyce Rogers demonstrated this by her behavior.
Isaiah cried, "Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of host." Isaiah 6:5
While under duress Joyce Rogers cried, "My husband and I are clean but we dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips." "My husband should be held blameless on the word of Paul Williams who said he did not know." She cried: "I think it has to do with his integrity, and his manner of dealing with things like this. He would have dealt with it immediately." "My husband has clean lips but Steve Gaines does not! My husband has integrity but Steve Gaines does not."
Dr Rogers paid $500,000 to keep a former staff member silent so now we know what his immediate reaction would have been. Oh, he would act quickly but not with integrity.
If you gaze upon the Lord of Host you will understand original sin. When you gaze upon a sin such as Paul Williams you cry, "woe is me, for I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst of men with unclean lips." This is a Calvinistic reaction toward sin.
If you are liberal in your theology you cry: "Paul Williams is a homosexual and he has a right to alternative behavior." "I'm OK you are OK" This is a reflection of pure Pelagianism.
Joyce Rogers says: "We are OK but you are not OK" Calvinism says: "We are not OK"
The SBC teaches the age of accountability as the age when one can accept Christ as Savior. It is the time when a person is aware of his own sinfulness and will transgress the law of God. Contrary to this is the orthodox belief of original sin. Adam's sin is transmitted to his descendants by inheritance. Romans 5:12, 18-19. We are born into a state of sin and are under condemnation at birth and not at a latter age of accountability. This is a contracted state as a result of Adam's committed act. An infant is under condemnation not because of his act but Adam's. Through Christ the regenerated have peace with God and are not under condemnation but they do live every day till death with the presence of potential sin. Through Christ's provision for Justification the believer has access to grace to stand against this daily possibility of sinning. He can be victorious against this possibility and if he fails he has an advocate before the Holy God. He has forgiveness. This is the teaching on original sin contrary to what Adrian Rogers preached.
The Church's teaching on original sin carried from the apostles was challenged in the fifth century by Pelagius. He taught that man could by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life. This teaching was declared a heresy by the Church. The Church has not followed this ruling and today in American Evangelicalism Pelagianism has reared it's ugly head. Joyce Rogers demonstrated this by her behavior.
Isaiah cried, "Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of host." Isaiah 6:5
While under duress Joyce Rogers cried, "My husband and I are clean but we dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips." "My husband should be held blameless on the word of Paul Williams who said he did not know." She cried: "I think it has to do with his integrity, and his manner of dealing with things like this. He would have dealt with it immediately." "My husband has clean lips but Steve Gaines does not! My husband has integrity but Steve Gaines does not."
Dr Rogers paid $500,000 to keep a former staff member silent so now we know what his immediate reaction would have been. Oh, he would act quickly but not with integrity.
If you gaze upon the Lord of Host you will understand original sin. When you gaze upon a sin such as Paul Williams you cry, "woe is me, for I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst of men with unclean lips." This is a Calvinistic reaction toward sin.
If you are liberal in your theology you cry: "Paul Williams is a homosexual and he has a right to alternative behavior." "I'm OK you are OK" This is a reflection of pure Pelagianism.
Joyce Rogers says: "We are OK but you are not OK" Calvinism says: "We are not OK"
Can't You See It?
Yesterday at work I ask six Caucasians (I already knew how African Americans would respond) if there was a man who had f**ked his 10 year old son up the a** for 10 -12 months standing in front of you could you carry on a normal conversation with him. Without exception they answered, No! "I would not even shake his hand" "I would be repulsed" "He did what!" "I would walk away from him" "No" "No"
But not Joyce Rogers, Steve Gaines, Jamie Fish, Webb Williams, Elmer Bailey and a Bible Fellowship class. Of course they had known him for some years and there was a familiarity with him. My colleagues did not know him. This is the frog and the boiling water case. Bellevue had grown accustomed to Paul Williams and when they found out he was a "fag". . .well, being a "fag" was not so bad after all. This "fag" "fagged" his own son and still he was not so bad! Bellevue Baptist was boiling in water!
Joyce Rogers who had assumed the same temperature as the boiling water cared more about her dead husband's legacy than for Chris Williams. She did not care about Chris. Chris knew this. This hurt Chris. The wife of his childhood pastor did not care about him only the integrity of her husband. That was all! She did not rush to WMC to denounce homosexuality she went to defend her husband! Satan had his arms around her and she was doing his bidding.
I already know the response. You can read the repetitive comments. I am jealous of the Rogers and I am out to kick them. I am not. I am dealing with the result of Adrian Rogers' message.
He had chosen his beliefs and now absent and in heaven he is seeing the fruit being born. They are proud, knowing nothing. They were rich, and increased with goods and had need of nothing.
Now Mrs. Rogers is wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. The shame of her nakedness is appearing.
Pelagianism is being demonstrated for all to see. Do you see it?
But not Joyce Rogers, Steve Gaines, Jamie Fish, Webb Williams, Elmer Bailey and a Bible Fellowship class. Of course they had known him for some years and there was a familiarity with him. My colleagues did not know him. This is the frog and the boiling water case. Bellevue had grown accustomed to Paul Williams and when they found out he was a "fag". . .well, being a "fag" was not so bad after all. This "fag" "fagged" his own son and still he was not so bad! Bellevue Baptist was boiling in water!
Joyce Rogers who had assumed the same temperature as the boiling water cared more about her dead husband's legacy than for Chris Williams. She did not care about Chris. Chris knew this. This hurt Chris. The wife of his childhood pastor did not care about him only the integrity of her husband. That was all! She did not rush to WMC to denounce homosexuality she went to defend her husband! Satan had his arms around her and she was doing his bidding.
I already know the response. You can read the repetitive comments. I am jealous of the Rogers and I am out to kick them. I am not. I am dealing with the result of Adrian Rogers' message.
He had chosen his beliefs and now absent and in heaven he is seeing the fruit being born. They are proud, knowing nothing. They were rich, and increased with goods and had need of nothing.
Now Mrs. Rogers is wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. The shame of her nakedness is appearing.
Pelagianism is being demonstrated for all to see. Do you see it?
November 13, 2008
How Do You Talk With A Homosexual Pedophile?
Joyce Rogers told WMC-TV News "Mr. Williams told me that himself, that my husband did not know." When asked why it was important that the public knew Dr. Rogers was unaware of the situation, Joyce Rogers replied, "I think it has to do with his integrity, and his manner of dealing with things like this. He would have dealt with it immediately."
She displays no outrage that a young boy had been f**ked by his SBC ordained associate Bellevue Baptist pastor/father. You would expect that there would be outrage toward Paul Williams and she would want to address her rage on the evening news. But no, she wanted to make sure her husband's legacy was not spoiled with bad news. Her husband was a much better man than that Steve Gaines!
When Steve Gaines would not honor her request to clear her husband then like a spoiled child she rushes out of her Bellevue mansion and leads an entourage to Germantown Baptist Church and not being happy there she goes to Faith Baptist Church.
But she is not alone in this lack of outrage. Bellevue Baptist seems to lack the quality of Christian community that causes outrage against the sin of homosexuality.
Early on it has been alleged that Elmer Bailey failed to make this sin (crime) known to Dr Rogers or the staff of Bellevue. Webb Williams and Jamie Fish failed to notify Steve Gaines or the other staff. Steve Gaines himself kept it confidential for six months. And when it became public some of Paul Williams' Bible Fellow class would keep him as their teacher.
Listen, Paul Williams f**ked his own son and there is no outrage, at least made known publicly.
Twenty six people have voted on my poll so far and my vote stands alone. Joyce Rogers exercised bad judgment in asking Steve Gaines to say her husband did not know about Paul Williams' crime. Probably NASS" sheep have gained up on me and organized an effort to sabotaged the poll. Perhaps the sentiment is so strongly in Joyce Rogers' favor that no one will address this issue.
Tell me this, she talked with Paul Williams, how does a respectable Christian lady talk with a man who so cruelly f**ked his own son. He is a pedophile! How do you talk to a known pedophile? "Paul, how is the family? It sure looks like rain today, we need it badly. Oh, by the way did my husband know about the stuff you did?" Paul: "no, Joyce, he didn't." "Thank goodness Paul, I was afraid you might have told him. I am relieved! Tell ______ I said hello."
When I tell people at work about Paul Williams and what he did to his son they say, "I would kick his a**!" "He is a monster." But what do they know, they are not "Bellevue elites!"
"These people use such bad language. Isn't it awful how they talk?" Oh by the way these people think that homosexuality is really bad! They call them "fags."
You know what I would do if I was to stand in front of Paul Williams. I would want to kick his sorry ass! I wouldn't of course but I would struggle with words. I've never talked with a known homosexual pedophile.
Bad theology produces bad behavior! Bellevue has it's share!
She displays no outrage that a young boy had been f**ked by his SBC ordained associate Bellevue Baptist pastor/father. You would expect that there would be outrage toward Paul Williams and she would want to address her rage on the evening news. But no, she wanted to make sure her husband's legacy was not spoiled with bad news. Her husband was a much better man than that Steve Gaines!
When Steve Gaines would not honor her request to clear her husband then like a spoiled child she rushes out of her Bellevue mansion and leads an entourage to Germantown Baptist Church and not being happy there she goes to Faith Baptist Church.
But she is not alone in this lack of outrage. Bellevue Baptist seems to lack the quality of Christian community that causes outrage against the sin of homosexuality.
Early on it has been alleged that Elmer Bailey failed to make this sin (crime) known to Dr Rogers or the staff of Bellevue. Webb Williams and Jamie Fish failed to notify Steve Gaines or the other staff. Steve Gaines himself kept it confidential for six months. And when it became public some of Paul Williams' Bible Fellow class would keep him as their teacher.
Listen, Paul Williams f**ked his own son and there is no outrage, at least made known publicly.
Twenty six people have voted on my poll so far and my vote stands alone. Joyce Rogers exercised bad judgment in asking Steve Gaines to say her husband did not know about Paul Williams' crime. Probably NASS" sheep have gained up on me and organized an effort to sabotaged the poll. Perhaps the sentiment is so strongly in Joyce Rogers' favor that no one will address this issue.
Tell me this, she talked with Paul Williams, how does a respectable Christian lady talk with a man who so cruelly f**ked his own son. He is a pedophile! How do you talk to a known pedophile? "Paul, how is the family? It sure looks like rain today, we need it badly. Oh, by the way did my husband know about the stuff you did?" Paul: "no, Joyce, he didn't." "Thank goodness Paul, I was afraid you might have told him. I am relieved! Tell ______ I said hello."
When I tell people at work about Paul Williams and what he did to his son they say, "I would kick his a**!" "He is a monster." But what do they know, they are not "Bellevue elites!"
"These people use such bad language. Isn't it awful how they talk?" Oh by the way these people think that homosexuality is really bad! They call them "fags."
You know what I would do if I was to stand in front of Paul Williams. I would want to kick his sorry ass! I wouldn't of course but I would struggle with words. I've never talked with a known homosexual pedophile.
Bad theology produces bad behavior! Bellevue has it's share!
An Awful Insult!
I was raised on good preaching. I assume that most of you reading are of the Baptist faith. My prior Pentecostal colleagues won't read this since I am Calvinist.
I heard good preaching in an open air tabernacle in Chattanooga on old Lee highway. The floor was strewn with sawdust shavings and seating for several thousands was old fashion angle iron and wood pews. The main service was the evening services with nationally recognized speakers. This was pentecostal preaching but with a strong Wesleyan-holiness emphasis. We fought "Jesus only" Independent "free holiness" people and of course the Baptist. Often the preaching was energized and emotional but deeper was a good message of holiness of life and commitment to Christ. There was exuberant praise, with occasional shouting , leaping and one man who ran around the tabernacle. Those were good old days.
The day was devoted to good Bible teaching by some of the best teachers the denomination had to offer. Attendance was lower but that was our favorite service. I was raised on what I hear many crying for today.
When I visited Bellevue Baptist ten or so years ago I went to observe Rogers preaching. I recognized good preaching and anointed preaching. Dr Rogers was a good preacher. The fact that this was a large beautiful sanctuary filled nearly to capacity and the preacher had a national broadcast, Love Worth Finding, did not effect my judgment. There was no awe in my sight. I did not worship the man. I do not mean this in a mean spirited way. I recognized the qualities of good speaking, subjective conviction and excellent voice control. But I didn't recognize an anointing. There is a difference between "spirited" preaching and "Anointed" preaching. Now a seasoned Pentecostal recognizes the difference. A "good" Pentecostal has to be able to hear the Word in the midst of murky emotional exuberance. This is a good thing!
A "good" Baptist has to just trust that his preacher is preaching the Word. There is little cultivation of hearing the Word in the murky splendor of a good speech. You confuse the Word with good speech. An old fashion classical Pentecostal would not be swayed by good speech nor a loud screaming message. Good hearing comes not from the flesh but the Holy Spirit. He gives the ear the hearing.
What is the difference you might ask? The Baptist is taught that right doctrine must be mastered to know the difference and there is a truth in that. A Pentecostal looks to a witness of the Spirit that bears a witness to his spirit. This witness cooperates with the witness of the Bible.
One of the things that interested me about Dr Rogers was his altar calls. He had a pattern and never strayed away from it. He always left the platform and came to the floor and stood below the pulpit. There he gave the invitation.
I found myself many times thinking, "why is he walking that way?" Over and over I heard myself think that. He walked strange , flatfooted and cautious. "Why" is he walking that way?
"Why am I thinking this?" "What does it matter that he is walking that way?"
When the Paul Williams crisis surfaced it occurred to me that the Spirit was providing the utterance for this thought. He was getting my attention, "what do you see here?" "He is walking funny!" "Why is he walking this way?"
The floor was covered in blood, the blood of the Son of God! The blood wherewith he was sanctified was being trampled. It was treated as an unholy thing! A great insult to the Spirit was taking place in that Church. This sin was not an isolated sin of one man but a corporate sin flowing from a false gospel. It was the result of a semi-Pelagian gospel.
I heard good preaching in an open air tabernacle in Chattanooga on old Lee highway. The floor was strewn with sawdust shavings and seating for several thousands was old fashion angle iron and wood pews. The main service was the evening services with nationally recognized speakers. This was pentecostal preaching but with a strong Wesleyan-holiness emphasis. We fought "Jesus only" Independent "free holiness" people and of course the Baptist. Often the preaching was energized and emotional but deeper was a good message of holiness of life and commitment to Christ. There was exuberant praise, with occasional shouting , leaping and one man who ran around the tabernacle. Those were good old days.
The day was devoted to good Bible teaching by some of the best teachers the denomination had to offer. Attendance was lower but that was our favorite service. I was raised on what I hear many crying for today.
When I visited Bellevue Baptist ten or so years ago I went to observe Rogers preaching. I recognized good preaching and anointed preaching. Dr Rogers was a good preacher. The fact that this was a large beautiful sanctuary filled nearly to capacity and the preacher had a national broadcast, Love Worth Finding, did not effect my judgment. There was no awe in my sight. I did not worship the man. I do not mean this in a mean spirited way. I recognized the qualities of good speaking, subjective conviction and excellent voice control. But I didn't recognize an anointing. There is a difference between "spirited" preaching and "Anointed" preaching. Now a seasoned Pentecostal recognizes the difference. A "good" Pentecostal has to be able to hear the Word in the midst of murky emotional exuberance. This is a good thing!
A "good" Baptist has to just trust that his preacher is preaching the Word. There is little cultivation of hearing the Word in the murky splendor of a good speech. You confuse the Word with good speech. An old fashion classical Pentecostal would not be swayed by good speech nor a loud screaming message. Good hearing comes not from the flesh but the Holy Spirit. He gives the ear the hearing.
What is the difference you might ask? The Baptist is taught that right doctrine must be mastered to know the difference and there is a truth in that. A Pentecostal looks to a witness of the Spirit that bears a witness to his spirit. This witness cooperates with the witness of the Bible.
One of the things that interested me about Dr Rogers was his altar calls. He had a pattern and never strayed away from it. He always left the platform and came to the floor and stood below the pulpit. There he gave the invitation.
I found myself many times thinking, "why is he walking that way?" Over and over I heard myself think that. He walked strange , flatfooted and cautious. "Why" is he walking that way?
"Why am I thinking this?" "What does it matter that he is walking that way?"
When the Paul Williams crisis surfaced it occurred to me that the Spirit was providing the utterance for this thought. He was getting my attention, "what do you see here?" "He is walking funny!" "Why is he walking this way?"
The floor was covered in blood, the blood of the Son of God! The blood wherewith he was sanctified was being trampled. It was treated as an unholy thing! A great insult to the Spirit was taking place in that Church. This sin was not an isolated sin of one man but a corporate sin flowing from a false gospel. It was the result of a semi-Pelagian gospel.
November 11, 2008
Fiery Indignation
At the very core of the narrative of Bellevue is an egregious and perverse homosexual sin. Rather than being an isolated incident it seems to be an intelligent effort to warn us of coming doom. One gets the feeling that something is very wrong with American Christianity.
There is a connection of the subject of homosexuality to the presentation of the gospel in Paul's book of Romans. His proposition is set forth in 1:16,17 followed by the ground work of the need of salvation. Sin left to it's own course ends in egregious and perverse sexual activity. "God gave them up to vile affections." Paul is making a distinction between heterosexual sins and homosexual sins. The latter are given over to vile affections, unnatural, unseemly, reprobate and "none convenient" passions. Literally they break through a barrier. Heterosexual sinners know that there are things so taboo that they should be avoided. There is a natural inhibition built into the human psyche to avoid such activity. Physically the human body has provision for natural sexual activity. The body is designed to progress along a developmental path. Central to this development is a gland that guides this development beginning at the earliest years.
This barrier is a law written on all hearts, without exception. The breaking of this barrier is not just a psychological block but a spiritual "changing of the truth of God into a lie." It is an intentional "worship of the creature over the creator." It strikes close to the sin of blasphemy.
It is a generational sin in that the children of the homosexual are usually forced to have this barrier broken, psychologically and physically. It destroys the fabric of families; father/ wife and son /daughter.
All this said; there is a universal need of the saving message of God in Christ Jesus delivering us from this sinful condition.
Paul Williams' father abused him, his father broke his barrier, the father willfully and the son unwillingly. Paul went on to serve the Lord, became a father and a preacher. Willfully he broke his son's barrier, also his son was unwilling. For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26,27 God has turned Paul Williams over to a reprobate condition.
Adrian Rogers failed to preach the gospel effectively for Paul's Williams' complete salvation and God has taken Dr Rogers on to heaven for discipline.
There is a connection of the subject of homosexuality to the presentation of the gospel in Paul's book of Romans. His proposition is set forth in 1:16,17 followed by the ground work of the need of salvation. Sin left to it's own course ends in egregious and perverse sexual activity. "God gave them up to vile affections." Paul is making a distinction between heterosexual sins and homosexual sins. The latter are given over to vile affections, unnatural, unseemly, reprobate and "none convenient" passions. Literally they break through a barrier. Heterosexual sinners know that there are things so taboo that they should be avoided. There is a natural inhibition built into the human psyche to avoid such activity. Physically the human body has provision for natural sexual activity. The body is designed to progress along a developmental path. Central to this development is a gland that guides this development beginning at the earliest years.
This barrier is a law written on all hearts, without exception. The breaking of this barrier is not just a psychological block but a spiritual "changing of the truth of God into a lie." It is an intentional "worship of the creature over the creator." It strikes close to the sin of blasphemy.
It is a generational sin in that the children of the homosexual are usually forced to have this barrier broken, psychologically and physically. It destroys the fabric of families; father/ wife and son /daughter.
All this said; there is a universal need of the saving message of God in Christ Jesus delivering us from this sinful condition.
Paul Williams' father abused him, his father broke his barrier, the father willfully and the son unwillingly. Paul went on to serve the Lord, became a father and a preacher. Willfully he broke his son's barrier, also his son was unwilling. For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26,27 God has turned Paul Williams over to a reprobate condition.
Adrian Rogers failed to preach the gospel effectively for Paul's Williams' complete salvation and God has taken Dr Rogers on to heaven for discipline.
Sitting In Moses' Seat
When Joyce Rogers made her bold request to be excluded from the investigation, based upon her word and the word of Paul Williams, she was acting out the part of Pharisees of Jesus' days. Instead of sitting quietly like everyone else and waiting to see the outcome of the investigative committee, she leaps up in defense of her husband's integrity. How hypocritical!
Does this hypocrisy spring from grace and godliness? No, it springs from a corrupted base. A base of unwholesome and unsound words and a doctrine not according to godliness. I Timothy 6:3 and II Tim 1:13
Behind ever great man is a great woman. Dr Rogers was her man. She fed him. She massaged his ego. She made him into the man he was. He had her to thank. Together they constructed an island no one else could live on. When the world was crumbling all around her she asserted her citizenship on their exclusive island. It was a Pelagian island. An island where the best of mankind forges a life of self-discipline and perfectionism, unattainable to common mainlanders.
When it came to common realities of life her man was naive to these realities and hired men handled these hard realities for him. He remained distant to church problems. This attitude did not spring from grace and godliness but from self-determination.
Matthew 23:1-15 (KJV)
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Does this hypocrisy spring from grace and godliness? No, it springs from a corrupted base. A base of unwholesome and unsound words and a doctrine not according to godliness. I Timothy 6:3 and II Tim 1:13
Behind ever great man is a great woman. Dr Rogers was her man. She fed him. She massaged his ego. She made him into the man he was. He had her to thank. Together they constructed an island no one else could live on. When the world was crumbling all around her she asserted her citizenship on their exclusive island. It was a Pelagian island. An island where the best of mankind forges a life of self-discipline and perfectionism, unattainable to common mainlanders.
When it came to common realities of life her man was naive to these realities and hired men handled these hard realities for him. He remained distant to church problems. This attitude did not spring from grace and godliness but from self-determination.
Matthew 23:1-15 (KJV)
Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
November 9, 2008
Rogers' Island Of Righteousness
When Joyce Rogers demanded that her pastor publicly disavow any part her husband played in the debacle of Paul Williams the ugly head of Pelagianism was manifested. She demonstrated the "Pelagian Captivity" that held her husband to a false gospel. She was demanding from Steve Gaines a signed blank check stating she and her husband were above the perverse and egregious fray. They were different from everyone else. They were righteous. When she didn't get her way she rushed to Mike Flemming's radio show and made the announcement for all the world to know. She and her husband lived on an island of righteousness.
This island of righteousness is the semi-Pelagian base from which free will operates. Dr Rogers' anti-Calvinism was never more evident than that moment! The problem was that Dr Rogers was not there to put a stop to it. She was intruding into an area the apostle Paul warned should be best confided in husbands in the privacy of the home.
Dr Gaines, himself an anti-Calvinist, suddenly was brought to face this island of righteousness and he suddenly knew it did not exist. He left Gardendale to face a horrible reality of sinfulness he probably never knew existed. He was face to face with Calvinism's base, total depravity. He was in a position that implied that there were no innocent bystanders. "We are all unclean in an unclean church!" "There is none good no not one!" "The best of our righteousness is as filthy rags!"
In the middle of this mess he has a silly widow asking to be excluded! Never have free willers been more foolish!
For a brief moment the SBC had a strong Calvinist pastor at Bellevue Baptist!
Joyce Rogers fled in shame to other churches. She is now a church hopper. Any pastor who preaches to her must preach anti-Calvinism or she will flee again. That is the way they do it.
She is Adrian Rogers widow. She controls the reins of the SBC and they must comply. She would make a good SBC president!
This island of righteousness is the semi-Pelagian base from which free will operates. Dr Rogers' anti-Calvinism was never more evident than that moment! The problem was that Dr Rogers was not there to put a stop to it. She was intruding into an area the apostle Paul warned should be best confided in husbands in the privacy of the home.
Dr Gaines, himself an anti-Calvinist, suddenly was brought to face this island of righteousness and he suddenly knew it did not exist. He left Gardendale to face a horrible reality of sinfulness he probably never knew existed. He was face to face with Calvinism's base, total depravity. He was in a position that implied that there were no innocent bystanders. "We are all unclean in an unclean church!" "There is none good no not one!" "The best of our righteousness is as filthy rags!"
In the middle of this mess he has a silly widow asking to be excluded! Never have free willers been more foolish!
For a brief moment the SBC had a strong Calvinist pastor at Bellevue Baptist!
Joyce Rogers fled in shame to other churches. She is now a church hopper. Any pastor who preaches to her must preach anti-Calvinism or she will flee again. That is the way they do it.
She is Adrian Rogers widow. She controls the reins of the SBC and they must comply. She would make a good SBC president!
Adrian Rogers, "I Will Continue Attending Bellevue"
Perhaps as Dr Rogers sits in his chair watching the crumbling of "his" Bellevue and the rising of another Bellevue his greatest disappointment is the departure of his own family from the Church. Yes, his own wife has become the very thing every pastor despises, a "Church hopper". “‘Where shall we go this morning, dear?’ he says. ‘The music is great at Calvary but I like the teaching at Grace.’ ‘Don’t forget the kids,’ she says. ‘The youth program at Bethany is the best of all.’ ‘I’ve got it. We’ll drop the kids off at Bethany and go to Grace for teaching, and then we can start going to the Saturday night worship and praise services at Calvary.’”
Karen said... NBBCOF 8:41 AM, December 22, 2006 Mrs. Rogers has been nothing but gracious since Dr. Gaines has arrived, but bless her for speaking the truth. I can't stand it that Dr. Gaines has disregarded her request to tell the church that Dr. Rogers didn't know (about Paul Williams sin). Another self-serving moment in the life of Dr. Gaines.
This seems to be the reason that Joyce Rogers left Bellevue. Steve Gaines would not tell the church that Dr Rogers didn't know. Now somebody explain to me how would Steve Gaines know that this was the truth. Paul Williams and Joyce Rogers told him and he is suppose to believe them?
How is this a self-serving moment for Steve Gaines? It was a self-serving moment for Joyce Rogers!
Karen said... NBBCOF 8:41 AM, December 22, 2006 Mrs. Rogers has been nothing but gracious since Dr. Gaines has arrived, but bless her for speaking the truth. I can't stand it that Dr. Gaines has disregarded her request to tell the church that Dr. Rogers didn't know (about Paul Williams sin). Another self-serving moment in the life of Dr. Gaines.
This seems to be the reason that Joyce Rogers left Bellevue. Steve Gaines would not tell the church that Dr Rogers didn't know. Now somebody explain to me how would Steve Gaines know that this was the truth. Paul Williams and Joyce Rogers told him and he is suppose to believe them?
How is this a self-serving moment for Steve Gaines? It was a self-serving moment for Joyce Rogers!
November 8, 2008
Bellevue Baptist Lay-offs
I don't believe that you will find a Biblical instruction for Church abandonment. If you have joined a Church and established a regular giving practice then you have an obligation to continue that support even if you don't like the pastor. He should be confronted and the leadership should be aware of your beliefs. If necessary you should be vigilant in your protest of the pastors actions. You should not leave when asked to leave because this is a Church and it is a spiritual institution.
Steve Gaines, has erred in his failure to expose Paul Williams and that is his worst problem. There is no reason to leave Bellevue with your finances, I don't care who you are. If anybody understands this or should understand it surely would be Joyce Rogers. Mark Sharpe, Josh Manning and the others directly involved in the protest failed in their responsibility. Feeling as they did can you imagine if they would have stood their ground and remained unmoved?
I understand this obstinacy for what I believe is truth and like a pit bull I will not let go regardless of the resistance. The greater my resistance the deeper the bite. Most of you think this is wrong. You are afraid to be called what I am called, unjustly. You are afraid to be ignored and no effort made to hear what your thesis is. Most of this loss of hearing on the part of my enemies comes from God. God withholds the hearing from them.
We often wonder why there are so many denominations in America. I know why! Too many people abandon a ministry too early. They give up the fight. When a revival is about to start and a renewal on the verge to erupt they go start a new work or change to another work in progress. This is why American Fundamentalism is stale and lifeless. So now we have three stale Churches, large in scope but stale; Ellendale, Faith and Bellevue Baptist. There are other Churches which are growing with Bellevue's refugees but stale people make bigger stale churches.
Brother Pastor, when you take in one of these refugees know that if your do not make them happy they will leave you too! So please them with what ever they call truth. That is your bread and butter.
If you are one of the poor souls without a job, it is not Steve Gaines fault it is the followers of Joyce Rogers and the following internet sites: Saving Bellevue, The Watchman - Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?, Mark Sharpe Interview Comments and New BBC Open Forum.
Search out these sites and you will find names who are responsible for your demise. However most are cowards and all you will find is anonymity. But many have e-mail addresses in their profiles. Send them a message and thank them for "opening the door" for your job loss!
Steve Gaines, has erred in his failure to expose Paul Williams and that is his worst problem. There is no reason to leave Bellevue with your finances, I don't care who you are. If anybody understands this or should understand it surely would be Joyce Rogers. Mark Sharpe, Josh Manning and the others directly involved in the protest failed in their responsibility. Feeling as they did can you imagine if they would have stood their ground and remained unmoved?
I understand this obstinacy for what I believe is truth and like a pit bull I will not let go regardless of the resistance. The greater my resistance the deeper the bite. Most of you think this is wrong. You are afraid to be called what I am called, unjustly. You are afraid to be ignored and no effort made to hear what your thesis is. Most of this loss of hearing on the part of my enemies comes from God. God withholds the hearing from them.
We often wonder why there are so many denominations in America. I know why! Too many people abandon a ministry too early. They give up the fight. When a revival is about to start and a renewal on the verge to erupt they go start a new work or change to another work in progress. This is why American Fundamentalism is stale and lifeless. So now we have three stale Churches, large in scope but stale; Ellendale, Faith and Bellevue Baptist. There are other Churches which are growing with Bellevue's refugees but stale people make bigger stale churches.
Brother Pastor, when you take in one of these refugees know that if your do not make them happy they will leave you too! So please them with what ever they call truth. That is your bread and butter.
If you are one of the poor souls without a job, it is not Steve Gaines fault it is the followers of Joyce Rogers and the following internet sites: Saving Bellevue, The Watchman - Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes?, Mark Sharpe Interview Comments and New BBC Open Forum.
Search out these sites and you will find names who are responsible for your demise. However most are cowards and all you will find is anonymity. But many have e-mail addresses in their profiles. Send them a message and thank them for "opening the door" for your job loss!
November 7, 2008
Bellevue's Lay-Off
"80+ people were let go this week with a warning that more will follow next month. On this round, they were all non-minister positions. The next round will include staff but they will be given 4 to 6 months to find another job" NBBCOF diningroomtableforsale. 9:03 PM, October 08, 2008diningroomtableforsale said... NBBCOF "1:11 PM, November 06, 2008
"How can a true leader stand up and tell his followers they need to get with the program and give more because funds are low while at the same time be raking in a $500,000 package and laying his faithful subordinates off here at the end of the year?I would feel sorry for the people being laid off but Steve is actually doing them a big favor by pushing them on out the door. Words cannot accurately describe the audacity to hire your son and your daughter's husband while firing faithful workers that have been at Bellevue longer than Steve Gaines himself. Bellevue is leaderless at this time and the masses of people either don't see it or won't see it."
"How can a true leader stand up and tell his followers they need to get with the program and give more because funds are low while at the same time be raking in a $500,000 package and laying his faithful subordinates off here at the end of the year?I would feel sorry for the people being laid off but Steve is actually doing them a big favor by pushing them on out the door. Words cannot accurately describe the audacity to hire your son and your daughter's husband while firing faithful workers that have been at Bellevue longer than Steve Gaines himself. Bellevue is leaderless at this time and the masses of people either don't see it or won't see it."
New BBC Open Forum said... 12:14 AM, October 09, 2008
"Layoffs??? If things were so bad that they are having to lay off people , then why was Grant Gaines hired and why is Ryan Wingo on stage when they already have so many paid music ministers tripping over each other." Do you need someone to draw the Gaines family tree for you?
"Layoffs??? If things were so bad that they are having to lay off people , then why was Grant Gaines hired and why is Ryan Wingo on stage when they already have so many paid music ministers tripping over each other." Do you need someone to draw the Gaines family tree for you?
All this is erroneous thinking. The accumulated finances of those who have left Bellevue along with their contributions in the last two and one/half years has contributed to the layoffs.
So if you are one of the poor souls without a job and want to thank the people responsible for pushing you out the door, I am going to offer you a list of people to contact. These are the people you should thank for pushing you out the door and on to the street without a job!
First: Joyce Rogers, her family and the clan who went with her to Germantown Baptist Church and then to Faith Baptist Church. They have pulled from Bellevue a substantial amount of money which would have helped you to still have a job. Let them know how much you appreciate them! "Upon retirement, Rogers said he plans on continuing the Love Worth Finding radio and television ministry. He also plans on ministering through the recently established Adrian Rogers Pastor Training Institute and teaching at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. He will continue attending Bellevue Baptist."
to be continued . . .
Argumentum ad Misericordiam
click on pictureThis is victimization taken to absurdity. I doubt that the survivor really exist since he/she is hiding behind anonymity as well as the interviewer, who is a Buddhist trying to relate on a Christian theme. Even if he does exist why should I allow him to control me because of his rape. It is an awful side to this victimization but the raped end up years later themselves controllers using emotion to silence everyone else. So pardon me if I am not touched by your interview.
If these two people do exist and have really been raped they both need counseling. May I suggest a counselor? The Holy Spirit. You need to forgive your rapist and put this in the past.
I know that this suggestion will make Christa Brown do somersaults, but it is the truth.
Another anonymous person said: "Since he (Cakes) was raped by a ''Christian'' / his hatred is manifest against everything that calls it self ''Christian''.
My blog is about Paul Williams rape of his own young son and how it relates to the false doctrine Adrian Rogers preached. So you two go and sulk elsewhere you get no pity from me. You don't need pity you need help, real help. I've told you where you can find it. Now go!
November 6, 2008
Today From The Cakes Report
"Open Letter to Collierville First Baptist Church" Dear Chuck Herring, Mark LeGrone, Tommy Vinson, et al,My name is Cakes, a former Southern Baptist, born and raised, and now a Buddhist practitioner. I am also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, which is the primary context upon which—in January of 2007--I became involved with a group of Christians alienated after the pedophile scandal at Bellevue Baptist Church. A member of your church, Charles Page, has chosen to repeatedly traffic in vile and pornographic descriptions of the acts that led to the dismissal of Bellevue’s disgraced minister, including the name of his victim; not merely on his own blog, but mine and anywhere that he takes a notion. Further, he takes pleasure in badgering former Bellevue members made unwelcome by seeking renewal and reconciliation through their conscientious efforts to enact substantive consequences for the failures of, not only the pedophile-minister, but also those ministers that knowingly shielded him. It is repugnant that the survivor of this crime would have his name dragged through the mud over and over, and to be further victimized by a stranger who does so in the name of some divine mandate. Charles Page is suffering from some emotional or mental disorder, and worthy of compassion; yet not so much that he be allowed to perpetuate the suffering of others, especially one who has suffered sexual abuse, and the many victimized through intimidation, social expulsion and hubris.An intervention is in order, to provide Charles Page with the help he needs to find healing from his preoccupation with a young survivor; who like any survivor, just wants to move on with his or her life. Furthermore, Collierville First Baptist Church is supposed to be representative of Christ, and as such, I would think that a member peddling in such depraved and destructive speech—in the name of Christ--would be a priority for the spiritual mentors of this poor, misguided soul. If not, then the church leadership is nothing more than another bunch of empty suits who value career over conscience. One may find the egregious material here:http://watchinghidtory.blogspot.com/Also, I have a copied the page to my hard drive as well as kept an archive of every putrid comment he has dumped on my blog. Do something, please!
Cause For Celebration!
This presidential election was mainly about race and not the issues. A major obstacle of European domination over African-American descendants was broken. It will forever be a major landmark of American history. Never mind that he is one of the most liberal senators with little to no qualification for the presidency. None of this matters, a racial barrier has been broken. For this I am proud to be an American. This is a monumental event.
I would like to see another European barrier broken down. Particularily, Bristish theology has American Fundamentalism/Evangelicalism bound to free will ideals. Imported from the United Kingdom are beliefs that have held Christianity in bondage for over 200 years. It is time for revolution! Rise up lovers of the gospel and protest the domination of Evangelicalism.
Take hope! If an African-American can rise to be president surely we can put God back on the throne and rid forever the domination of a humanistic gospel that honors man above God.
Viva la Gospel!
November 4, 2008
Whoremongers Woo, God, The Father, Draws
What God joins together let not man break asunder. A Christian marriage vow includes the statement that this union is not created by man but God. God arranges the marriage!
John 6:44 King James "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." -ελκυση verb - helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw.
James 2:6 "But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?" ελκουσιν verb - present active indicative - third person helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw.
Acts 16:19 "And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers," ειλκυσαν verb - aorist active indicative - third person helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw.
Acts 21:30 "And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut." ειλκον verb - imperfect active indicative - third person helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw -
New American Standard Bible (©1995)Then all the city was provoked, and the people rushed together, and taking hold of Paul they dragged him out of the temple, and immediately the doors were shut. -Scripturetext.com for text and Greek words.
You have to draw water from a well with a bucket. You can not woo water from a well neither will God woo a sinner for Christ. The word implies an active drawing, dragging. The Father drags the sinner to Christ. -thanks to R C Sproul for this view
Contrary to our culture the bride is drawn to the groom, not by romantic allurement or enticement. Implied in this traditional arrangement perhaps is an unwillingness to marry! In the case of the sinner he is hostile to God, spiritually dead without desire to come to him. When sinners are approached by the Holy Spirit they scatter like sheep, they go astray. They have to be caught and "made" by regeneration to repent and confess. By regeneration they are given the faith to believe. They have to be regenerated to see the kingdom of heaven.
Faith clearly follows regeneration. It cannot nor will not precede regeneration.
John 6:44 King James "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." -ελκυση verb - helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw.
James 2:6 "But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?" ελκουσιν verb - present active indicative - third person helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw.
Acts 16:19 "And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers," ειλκυσαν verb - aorist active indicative - third person helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw.
Acts 21:30 "And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut." ειλκον verb - imperfect active indicative - third person helkuo hel-koo'-o: to drag -- draw -
New American Standard Bible (©1995)Then all the city was provoked, and the people rushed together, and taking hold of Paul they dragged him out of the temple, and immediately the doors were shut. -Scripturetext.com for text and Greek words.
You have to draw water from a well with a bucket. You can not woo water from a well neither will God woo a sinner for Christ. The word implies an active drawing, dragging. The Father drags the sinner to Christ. -thanks to R C Sproul for this view
Contrary to our culture the bride is drawn to the groom, not by romantic allurement or enticement. Implied in this traditional arrangement perhaps is an unwillingness to marry! In the case of the sinner he is hostile to God, spiritually dead without desire to come to him. When sinners are approached by the Holy Spirit they scatter like sheep, they go astray. They have to be caught and "made" by regeneration to repent and confess. By regeneration they are given the faith to believe. They have to be regenerated to see the kingdom of heaven.
Faith clearly follows regeneration. It cannot nor will not precede regeneration.
November 3, 2008
Loved And Purchased Not Wooed
Ephesians 5:22-25 (KJV)Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.
Perry, the Biblical marriage is complimentary with the marriage of Christ and the Church. You cannot have a free will marriage of the Church to Christ and have an arranged Biblical marriage. They will not compliment each other. A free will gospel will be very offensive to the middle east religions.
You cannot be true to the Bible and alter a middle eastern marriage analogy so it fits the free will gospel.
I don't know how many ways I can say it!
Either drop the marriage analogy and just stay with a free will separate gospel from the analogy or change your gospel message. Otherwise something will burst!
Preach a gospel complimentary with the Bible marriage and be consistent with Paul. Pretty plain! Preach an arranged salvation fully of grace complimentary with an arranged middle eastern marriage.
The lady who cuts my hair is a Jew by birth and calls herself a "Jesus Jew", distinct from a "City Jesus Jew". Yesterday, I presented your drama about the virgins and the single man and she immediately responded against your analogy. "They would be harlots" she said. Without my prodding she responded, "this man wants to sell his product!" then she added, "He is just like those people at Bellevue." She didn't need any coaxing from me. She took over the conversation! Jews see right through to your intentions, Perry.
While walking my dog yesterday evening, I ask a Muslim neighbor of mine the same question and his gentle answer was "This is a joke!"
Take heart, I am not leaving a dead man alone, I am still attacking his theology. Perry's Wesleyan, Charismatic gospel is similar to Adrian's gospel. Very little difference!
Hail With The Queen
I want to break free from the hold queens Victoria and Elizabeth have on us to keep us civilized so she can rule us. "I thought that we had done that in 1776", you are thinking. But no, there is a net over us to this day that makes it easy for us to be ruled. It is called "political correctness" and it forces us to conform to a world outside of the world God expect us to live in. The rulers of this world don't want our minds renewed by the Holy Spirit. That makes it impossible, absolutely impossible, for them to rule us.
You can not tell a man ruled by Holy Spirit what to do! The Holy Spirit alone does that. Charles, won't we have anarchy if we all do that. Yes, and it will start in the house of God first. Believe me, for the most part your elders and deacons don't want you ruled by the Holy Spirit. They want you ruled by them. They will dictate to you what to believe and how to act. These rulers can get seemingly so close to what the Bible teaches that you have to have the supernatural discernment to detect the difference. But guess what, your pastor probably tells you this gift doesn't work today. He says, "it did work in a primitive setting." Now wonder why!
Can you imagine the chaos if we all came together, led by the Spirit, and spoke freely what the Lord was giving to us? We would be told we were acting "Corinthian", that would mean we were disorderly and indecent. But the truth is that your rulers don't have the knowledge of the Bible nor the Presence of the Spirit to know what to do. Now that is "Corinthian"! Ignorant men who don't know what to do when the Spirit moves. Our rulers are unbelievers who should fall on their knees and confess the truth, God is with you. The gift of tongues is for their benefit. Prophecy is for the Spirit led. How many times have you set through a sermon and heard a pastor stumble over his interpretation of what "tongues" mean? How many ways can it be interpreted? In Acts they spoke as the Holy Spirit gave the utterance, what is difficult with that? "But it has to be clearly the Queens language, by men trained in her schools." What is difficult about anyone, trained or not, opening their mouth and letting the Holy Spirit give the utterance. It is 7:10 AM and that is what I am doing right now. You, sitting and reading, judge what I am saying, and say "amen or O me"! In a few minutes I will be on my way to do some tasks and I will have spoken. The Holy Spirit will accomplish the fulfilling of it.
We need another American revolution in the Church today. It will be an expensive war and membership will be lost. Leaders will be angry and some people will be killed and thrown into prison.
We will have to leave the towers of confusion and assemble in the caves and build our homes with rocks rather than nice bricks. We won't have the printing presses to pass on our message but we will have to rely on the truth shared by word of mouth in one simple crude languages.
You can not tell a man ruled by Holy Spirit what to do! The Holy Spirit alone does that. Charles, won't we have anarchy if we all do that. Yes, and it will start in the house of God first. Believe me, for the most part your elders and deacons don't want you ruled by the Holy Spirit. They want you ruled by them. They will dictate to you what to believe and how to act. These rulers can get seemingly so close to what the Bible teaches that you have to have the supernatural discernment to detect the difference. But guess what, your pastor probably tells you this gift doesn't work today. He says, "it did work in a primitive setting." Now wonder why!
Can you imagine the chaos if we all came together, led by the Spirit, and spoke freely what the Lord was giving to us? We would be told we were acting "Corinthian", that would mean we were disorderly and indecent. But the truth is that your rulers don't have the knowledge of the Bible nor the Presence of the Spirit to know what to do. Now that is "Corinthian"! Ignorant men who don't know what to do when the Spirit moves. Our rulers are unbelievers who should fall on their knees and confess the truth, God is with you. The gift of tongues is for their benefit. Prophecy is for the Spirit led. How many times have you set through a sermon and heard a pastor stumble over his interpretation of what "tongues" mean? How many ways can it be interpreted? In Acts they spoke as the Holy Spirit gave the utterance, what is difficult with that? "But it has to be clearly the Queens language, by men trained in her schools." What is difficult about anyone, trained or not, opening their mouth and letting the Holy Spirit give the utterance. It is 7:10 AM and that is what I am doing right now. You, sitting and reading, judge what I am saying, and say "amen or O me"! In a few minutes I will be on my way to do some tasks and I will have spoken. The Holy Spirit will accomplish the fulfilling of it.
We need another American revolution in the Church today. It will be an expensive war and membership will be lost. Leaders will be angry and some people will be killed and thrown into prison.
We will have to leave the towers of confusion and assemble in the caves and build our homes with rocks rather than nice bricks. We won't have the printing presses to pass on our message but we will have to rely on the truth shared by word of mouth in one simple crude languages.
Suggested Response By Bellevue Baptist To Paul Williams' Homosexuality
As early as 1949, Philippine Trends described self-flagellation as a "hangover from the Middle Ages" performed by "fanatical penitents" who engage in "a frenzy of self-scourging". In 1962, a columnist in The Manila Times denounced flagellation as "a throwback to the savage". Five years later, an article in The Saturday Chronicle described flagellation as "downright fanaticism - revolting to the spirit, senseless, and gruesome." Recently, flagellation has been branded as "primitive and barbaric" (Sunday Globe Magazine, 1990), a "macabre masochism" (Daily Globe, 1991).In the 1960s and 1970s, concern was repeatedly voiced in the Philippine press that flagellation was an embarrassing anachronism (echoing the view of eighteenth century Spanish missionaries), and "a blackeye to the Filipino image abroad". Cartoons in The Manila Times featured bleeding flagellants surrounded by incredulous tourists. "Is this right?" asked one caption (1961). "Only once a year, fortunately!" exclaimed another (1965). "Still at it", remarked a third, as two flagellants labelled "Superstition" and "Ignorance" marched defiantly into a brave new world (1968). The Times also castigated flagellation in a number of bellicose Holy Week editorials: "Deplorable spectacle blood-curdling The local authorities must intervene if sanity and reason are to be restored" (1966); and the following year, "this barbaric ritual should be discouraged". Even Imelda Marcos (then First Lady) was reported to be alarmed at the adverse effects of self-flagellation on the Filipino image abroad. Yet despite this potent, vociferous, and on occasion vitriolic opposition, self-flagellation continued to increase in popularity. source
When the revelations of Paul Williams homosexual rape of his own young son reached the congregation they should have chosen a radical penitent response to express their outrage. This should not have been ceremonial and symbolic response but a heart-broken response to the fact that one of their own associates raped his son.
I'm sure that there have been many who left the Church without saying they are leaving because they don't want anything to do with a Church who has a homosexual on staff. God bless them! However the world needed to hear from them. The reaction toward Steve Gaines was not the response. It had little to do with Williams and more to do about his failings to duplicate Rogers leadership.
The people who left because of Steve Gaines have no connection toward Williams crime.
I want to keep my outrage alive in order that no one will forget. WARNING WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO READ IS VERY PORNOGRAPHIC. IF DESCRIPTIONS OF SEXUAL ACTS IN GRAPHIC DETAILS BOTHER OR OFFEND YOU, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER!
When Bellevue was building it's new magnificent edifice on Appling Road, "Love Worth Finding" was getting off the ground and Adrian Rogers , approaching his 50th year in ministry, was drafting the "Family Life" statement to be presented to the SBC commission to be included in the BF&M. Paul Williams was fucking his own son, unknown by Rogers. There was a lengthy period of time, 12-18 months. He was forcing his son to do "perverse, egregious sexual" things to his own son. It was called , officially, a "moral failure" legalese by lawyers to avoid shame, disgrace and liability. Attempts at confidentiality and legalese forces ordinary people to surmise what "egregious and perverse" means. Lawyers design reports that mean that you can only allege what took place especially if efforts have been made to avoid prosecution, which seems consistent with Bellevue. Prosecution of Williams was of lesser importance than defending their credibility. The opposite took place, Bellevue's lack of response left the Church disgraced.
So I allege that Pastor Williams forced his enlarged adult penis into the very small, unlubricated anus of his son, Chris Williams. He forced his son to make physical and chemical adjustments to rush his body into strong puberty, greater than any young boy should ever have to experience. By the grace of God I can assume that Chris fought this adjustment so that he became neither a homosexual nor a deviant pedophile.
This struggle for Chris has been difficult beyond what most of us can never comprehend. His wife has had to join him in this struggle and she has endured more pain than most wives will ever know.
Allegedly there had been oral sex of father and son. He has serviced his son and and forced his son to service him. Mutual sex of both have been shameful to Chris and the pain of this must be unbearable. Again this took place for 12-18 months.
Now if this offends you, it should, it demonstrates the true perverseness of the act. It is that which Paul says even the pagans won't speak about. I am writing about sexual matters you will not find if you try. There are adult men who seduce young boys but not THEIR OWN SONS.
An associate working with Adrian Rogers at Bellevue Baptist Church seen by all driving on I-40 east and west bound to and from Nashville. Three large crosses, that should be dismantled and sold for scrap iron for partial payment to Chris Williams.
added: You might ask, Charles, "why are you using such language?" It is the only way anyone will listen and know the severity of this sin. I do not want to stand before God in judgement having not said these things. Worst still I do not want to be a part of those who have said that homosexuality is a "moral failure", "indiscretion" and "lapse of judgement". I don't want to be a a part of the people who have paid lawyers $1000's of peoples' hard earned offerings to come up with inoffensive words. Should I fear your response or God's judgement. I fear God's judgement.
November 2, 2008
Stoning The Middle East
This video presents a view of the Islamic world toward American Christianity, especially the first few minutes. They are saying it is a culture of outright declaration of war from radical Islam on western culture. It is an effort to undermine the very foundation of Christianity.
It is not just a view against Hollywood, homosexuality and lavish lifestyles but there is an anger toward the Christian religion. As evangelicals and fundamentalist we think that we are in their good graces because we are conservative and fundamental. We think that we share a common enemy of sinfulness.
Not so! Perry Stones' video demonstrates a view we Christians hold that is offensive to them.
These four girls illustrate the very foundation they despise about our beliefs. They are in the market place, at the well, virgins, acting like silly flirtatious harlots. This demonstrates that we are not concerned about properly discerning and respecting their culture. This may seem petty to us but it is very central to their thinking and it is offensive.
The Arabic youth is conducting himself improperly before these "virgins." The repercussions of this theology had deep roots in why America is the immoral nation it is.
1) You have their "virgins" acting like harlots. I ask a friend of mine who is a minister in a Jewish Christian congregation and he immediately agreed with me.
2) Unless you are willing to admit it you have our young daughters acting like harlots. This is not just directed toward our young but our feminine culture are acting in dress and conduct like harlots. The middle east sees this!
3) You are exporting a false gospel abroad and hindering evangelism.
4) You are in fact a part of the reason why terrorist are attacking America.
Our gospel message itself should be offensive, the free grace of God apart from religious works should be the reason we are attacked. Sadly it is not, it is the convenient worldly life style our message promotes.
It is not just a view against Hollywood, homosexuality and lavish lifestyles but there is an anger toward the Christian religion. As evangelicals and fundamentalist we think that we are in their good graces because we are conservative and fundamental. We think that we share a common enemy of sinfulness.
Not so! Perry Stones' video demonstrates a view we Christians hold that is offensive to them.
These four girls illustrate the very foundation they despise about our beliefs. They are in the market place, at the well, virgins, acting like silly flirtatious harlots. This demonstrates that we are not concerned about properly discerning and respecting their culture. This may seem petty to us but it is very central to their thinking and it is offensive.
The Arabic youth is conducting himself improperly before these "virgins." The repercussions of this theology had deep roots in why America is the immoral nation it is.
1) You have their "virgins" acting like harlots. I ask a friend of mine who is a minister in a Jewish Christian congregation and he immediately agreed with me.
2) Unless you are willing to admit it you have our young daughters acting like harlots. This is not just directed toward our young but our feminine culture are acting in dress and conduct like harlots. The middle east sees this!
3) You are exporting a false gospel abroad and hindering evangelism.
4) You are in fact a part of the reason why terrorist are attacking America.
Our gospel message itself should be offensive, the free grace of God apart from religious works should be the reason we are attacked. Sadly it is not, it is the convenient worldly life style our message promotes.
The Romance Of Salvation
The grace God offers is irresistible, however Grace, in the picture, is resistible! The offer of romance comes from the throne where a triune God sits. God, the father so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life. The whole world is perishing but there are those who are believing and they are delivered from destruction.The question is how did they come about to believe? Jesus told Nicodemus, "you must be born again to see the kingdom of God!" The new birth does not proceed from any human knowledge.
If it did a master in Israel would surely be born again! There is no human cooperation in the new birth. It defies logic to think otherwise. The dead, though physically alive as flesh and blood and mental capabilities, have no inclination, are not just marred, in seeking God, no not one.
There is no work of righteousness that cooperates with the Spirit in regeneration. Our salvation is arranged by decrees of God and long before we were born or any sin committed, including Adam and Eve. Our salvation is according to the pleasure of his will, not the pleasure of our will.
Like our western concept of marriage we sing "Love and Marriage." Courtship, flirtations and dating lead to an engagement for matrimony. Biblical marriages are arranged and purchased. Romance before marriage is prohibited and must be contained modestly. Marriage and love.
The wife submits to her husband and he then wins her love. Yes, indeed, there is wooing and it builds a strong relationship. The husband grows in his love for his wife and she submits to that love. A relationship is grown.
Our salvation is arranged by purchase apart from our intentions and we are reborn to new life.
We are wooed to repent, obey and be baptized after we are born again. We follow Christ in obedience and the Holy Spirit is accomplishing every phase along the way.
This grace is irresistible and it is effective toward the salvation for everyone believing. Everyone believing are the ones arranged for salvation. We call this election. All that the Father arranges to be saved are indeed saved and no one is lost. No not one! The power of Christ's blood saves to the uttermost. You are not perishing if He died for you. Are you listening to me!
Now at this point most preachers would like for you to believe that few are being saved. This adds to the fear factor in you coming forward with haste. Oh, what a deception! Jesus said, "in my father's house are many mansions" and if he didn't mean this he was a liar by his own admission. But you say, what about the wide and narrow ways? "Many are called but few are chosen?"
I am presenting to you the narrow way, crooked and treacherous, the way less traveled. You have been following a wide path, straight and unhindered, pragmatic and convenient. It has been determined by flesh and blood and scholarly wisdom via Rome, Britain and America, but it leads to disappointment in this life as well as the life to come. I did not say you were hell bound. You can be the elect and make bad decisions and follow false teaching. But you will be disappointed in the end. The qualitative destiny of the elect is determined by the elect. A sinner has no choice in any destiny as his end is determined.
November 1, 2008
Perry Stone, Stop This Nonsense, Please!
*
Perry, new wine will burst old wine skins! What do I mean by old wine skins bursting? When we try to alter the knowledge of God in order to do that which is convenient then we risk the chance that God will give us up to uncleanness. Romans 1:24-32 He lets us go! The question is: has God let America go? Hopefully not but we are hanging by a thin thread!
I am not a Calvinist looking for a debate for the sake of debate but a concerned Christian seeking the truth about American evangelical/fundamentalism. I just happened to view your broadcast and was immediately checked in my heart about your message.
Naturally the conflicting theologies, Wesleyanism and Calvinism, differ as to the free offer to the sinner. You gestured with your fingers the wooing of the sinner to God's grace. This gesture implies allurement and enticement. It can be innocent as well as evil. An evil man full of lust would use this gesture to attract an innocent victim. The same gesture can imply an effort to lure a stray cat from a dangerous situation.
Biblically we both know that the sinner is dead spiritually and no gesture will draw him away from destruction. You believe that a divine enablement is provided to the spiritually dead sinner to prompt him to accept God's invitation for salvation. ** I believe that work of enablement is regeneration (new birth). John 3:3
The Calvinist view is consistent with the Biblical wedding tradition. A marriage is arranged against the back drop of girls being captured for marriage. (Before Abraham, women were hardly ever mentioned in genealogical list. With Abram's family "sons and daughters" were mentioned.) The salvific arrangement is an a spiritual union apart from choice.
The concept of choice in salvation came with European enlightenment. The modern concepts of romantic allurement before marriage is of Mediterranean decent. French, Spanish and Italians' romance cultures provided the way for Victorian chivalry and western marriages as we know it today.
To attempt to make the offer of salvation "convenient" by accommodating modern western wedding traditions, using Biblical wedding customs alters the written knowledge we have of God handed down from olden times. America Christianity as we know it today are "covenant breakers" without understanding; we are without natural affection.
Perry, your presentation illustrates this acidic message that defiles the knowledge of God.
*VOE Resolution of Accountability If this is a true statement then Pery Stone is not profiting from product sales and I was wrong in stating so, previously.
**Unconditional Eternal Security, Myth or Truth?, French L. Arrington p. 15
Perry, new wine will burst old wine skins! What do I mean by old wine skins bursting? When we try to alter the knowledge of God in order to do that which is convenient then we risk the chance that God will give us up to uncleanness. Romans 1:24-32 He lets us go! The question is: has God let America go? Hopefully not but we are hanging by a thin thread!I am not a Calvinist looking for a debate for the sake of debate but a concerned Christian seeking the truth about American evangelical/fundamentalism. I just happened to view your broadcast and was immediately checked in my heart about your message.
Naturally the conflicting theologies, Wesleyanism and Calvinism, differ as to the free offer to the sinner. You gestured with your fingers the wooing of the sinner to God's grace. This gesture implies allurement and enticement. It can be innocent as well as evil. An evil man full of lust would use this gesture to attract an innocent victim. The same gesture can imply an effort to lure a stray cat from a dangerous situation.
Biblically we both know that the sinner is dead spiritually and no gesture will draw him away from destruction. You believe that a divine enablement is provided to the spiritually dead sinner to prompt him to accept God's invitation for salvation. ** I believe that work of enablement is regeneration (new birth). John 3:3
The Calvinist view is consistent with the Biblical wedding tradition. A marriage is arranged against the back drop of girls being captured for marriage. (Before Abraham, women were hardly ever mentioned in genealogical list. With Abram's family "sons and daughters" were mentioned.) The salvific arrangement is an a spiritual union apart from choice.
The concept of choice in salvation came with European enlightenment. The modern concepts of romantic allurement before marriage is of Mediterranean decent. French, Spanish and Italians' romance cultures provided the way for Victorian chivalry and western marriages as we know it today.
To attempt to make the offer of salvation "convenient" by accommodating modern western wedding traditions, using Biblical wedding customs alters the written knowledge we have of God handed down from olden times. America Christianity as we know it today are "covenant breakers" without understanding; we are without natural affection.
Perry, your presentation illustrates this acidic message that defiles the knowledge of God.
*VOE Resolution of Accountability If this is a true statement then Pery Stone is not profiting from product sales and I was wrong in stating so, previously.
**Unconditional Eternal Security, Myth or Truth?, French L. Arrington p. 15
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