There are three views of regeneration: baptismal, monergistic and decisional regeneration. Some believe that you are born again when you are baptized. The Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans and Oneness Pentecostals believe that you are regenerated when you are baptized. Others hold to a Holy Spirit Baptism, monergistic, solely the work of God apart from any cooperation from man. These are Calvinist and Reformed believers. The third baptism is the predominant view of evangelicals. It is decisional baptism in which the believer cooperates with God, opening his own heart to God for regeneration.
Decisional baptism is regeneration, new birth, received at the time of a sinner's deciding to accept Christ. It is expressed as walking down the isle to accept Christ. One may be lead to Christ by a soul winner who explains the way of salvation and leads the sinner in a prayer of acceptance. This DOES NOT MEAN that everyone saved this way are lost but it does mean that many false conversions are secured in this manner. Too many to dismiss this topic as merely argumentative. It has inherent dangers and poor results.
The dangers are a mistaken believe in the ability of man and this corrupts the foundation of all else that is professed in Christianity. It is an insult to the sovereignty of God and his own self determined pleasures.
It has no biblical basis nor does it have a historical tie to the first century church. It is a product of Charles Finney's methodology seen in the last several centuries.
For a good article about this and particularly as it relates to the Southern Baptist church go here.
January 16, 2009
January 14, 2009
Amazing Grace
I have this obsession of gnashing my teeth and humming. It drives my wife crazy! The last five days I have been humming "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "House of the rising sun."
Last Saturday my manager and a coworker from work went with me to the homeless shelter to feed the hungry. Our Bible fellowship class along with a group from Arkansas go there once a month.
That day at work that tune was going over and over and the Lord dealt with me to sing that song in the service after the feeding. I haven't sung in church for over 20 years! I was scared and asked for permission thinking I would be denied. They already had very good singing and I am not that good and it had to be without music since the pianist didn't know that song!
They heartily agreed to let me sing. Now, it seemed that the Lord had directed me how to do this. There were nearly 200 homeless in the room and with the workers the room was packed.
I gave a brief testimony and then sang a few verses and though nervous I did OK but not real good. I forgot some of the words.
Now the Lord had directed me to get some fellows to come and help me. I said to the men "Is there anyone here who can do better?" About four hands quickly rose and as instructed I said, "well get up here, quickly." Everybody laughed but only a one armed man stood by me. I pointed to a songbook I had found and pointed to the verse and we would sing together. I don't think he could read so he said, "you sing the verse and I'll join you." I put my arm around his neck so we could share the microphone. He sang so forcefully and our voices blended in good harmony. Together we were good! I never felt so close to heaven! The praise was wonderful and the whole room came alive. I led the whole group to sing with us.
We become like Christ when we get with the right people. That one armed man needed that the well fed men needed that and I needed that. Thank you God for leading me!
Last Saturday my manager and a coworker from work went with me to the homeless shelter to feed the hungry. Our Bible fellowship class along with a group from Arkansas go there once a month.
That day at work that tune was going over and over and the Lord dealt with me to sing that song in the service after the feeding. I haven't sung in church for over 20 years! I was scared and asked for permission thinking I would be denied. They already had very good singing and I am not that good and it had to be without music since the pianist didn't know that song!
They heartily agreed to let me sing. Now, it seemed that the Lord had directed me how to do this. There were nearly 200 homeless in the room and with the workers the room was packed.
I gave a brief testimony and then sang a few verses and though nervous I did OK but not real good. I forgot some of the words.
Now the Lord had directed me to get some fellows to come and help me. I said to the men "Is there anyone here who can do better?" About four hands quickly rose and as instructed I said, "well get up here, quickly." Everybody laughed but only a one armed man stood by me. I pointed to a songbook I had found and pointed to the verse and we would sing together. I don't think he could read so he said, "you sing the verse and I'll join you." I put my arm around his neck so we could share the microphone. He sang so forcefully and our voices blended in good harmony. Together we were good! I never felt so close to heaven! The praise was wonderful and the whole room came alive. I led the whole group to sing with us.
We become like Christ when we get with the right people. That one armed man needed that the well fed men needed that and I needed that. Thank you God for leading me!
January 12, 2009
As The Leader So Goes The Church
" The SBC church, institution or agency that believes the "leader" is beyond simple accountablity will find that leader has the capability to ruin the organization. When and if that happens, the fault will reside not only with the leader, but those laymen who were unable to see that a lack of transparency is the first indication that something is wrong." Wade Burleson
I am sure that Wade didn't have Dr. Rogers in mind when he posted this. However it applies to Rogers. I commented: "Is Bellevue the only SBC big church run this way? Rogers got by on this earth because of the self discipline of his personality. He just made you like him! That veiled something that God is revealing and Jesus said that wich is done in darkness will be revealed. Perhaps Paul Williams and this recession are providentially arranged to make known the truth."
Someone else said long ago: "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
I am sure that Wade didn't have Dr. Rogers in mind when he posted this. However it applies to Rogers. I commented: "Is Bellevue the only SBC big church run this way? Rogers got by on this earth because of the self discipline of his personality. He just made you like him! That veiled something that God is revealing and Jesus said that wich is done in darkness will be revealed. Perhaps Paul Williams and this recession are providentially arranged to make known the truth."
Someone else said long ago: "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."
January 11, 2009
Was Rogers' God Contemptible?
The "god" of this twentieth century no more resembles the Supreme Sovereign of Holy Writ than does the dim flickering of a candle the glory of the midday sun. The "god" who is now talked about in the average pulpit, spoken of in the ordinary Sunday School, mentioned in much of the religious literature of the day, and preached in most of the so-called Bible conferences is the figment of human imagination, an invention of maudlin sentimentality. The heathen outside of the pale of Christendom form "gods" out of wood and stone, while millions of heathen inside Christendom manufacture a "god" out of their own carnal mind. A "god" whose will is resisted, whose designs are frustrated, whose purpose is checkmated, possesses no title to Deity, and so far from being a fit object of worship, merits nought but contempt. Arthur W. Pink
Was Pink talking about Adrian Rogers' Jesus.? Well let's see.
1.) Could his Jesus be resisted?
2.) Could his Jesus' designs be frustrated?
3.) Could his Jesus be checkmated?
4.) Could his Jesus possess a title to Deity.
5.) Could his Jesus be worthy of worship?
All five items enlist argument as to whether his Jesus was the logos of John 1:1. Was He the Jesus who was with the Father and was God? Any one item that fails would disqualify Rogers' Jesus of being truly God. My considerations here are extremely radical and leave little room for anything but contempt for Rogers' Jesus. Am I as radical as Arthur W. Pink? You be the judge.
Was Pink talking about Adrian Rogers' Jesus.? Well let's see.
1.) Could his Jesus be resisted?
2.) Could his Jesus' designs be frustrated?
3.) Could his Jesus be checkmated?
4.) Could his Jesus possess a title to Deity.
5.) Could his Jesus be worthy of worship?
All five items enlist argument as to whether his Jesus was the logos of John 1:1. Was He the Jesus who was with the Father and was God? Any one item that fails would disqualify Rogers' Jesus of being truly God. My considerations here are extremely radical and leave little room for anything but contempt for Rogers' Jesus. Am I as radical as Arthur W. Pink? You be the judge.
Mrs. Rogers' inheritance
And one of the company said unto him, "master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. And he said unto him, "man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?" And he said unto them, "take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth."
And he spake a parable unto them, saying, "the ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully": and he thought within himself, saying, "what shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?" And he said, "this will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry."
But God said unto him, "thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?" So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
And he spake a parable unto them, saying, "the ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully": and he thought within himself, saying, "what shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?" And he said, "this will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods. And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry."
But God said unto him, "thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?" So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.
January 10, 2009
Message For Joyce Rogers
For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.
January 8, 2009
This Is Fun!
Pie Thrower said...
Mr. Page: My name is Darrell. I was the man that threw that pie in your face back those many years ago. I have read your "version" of that incident. Now please let me tell all about what really happened.We were on the town square celebrating the history of our town. Several of our town officials had volunteered to have pies thrown in their face to raise money for abused and orphaned children. It was hot and many people had lined up with money in their hands. All of sudden this young teen rudely pushed himself into that line and brutally shoved people aside to see what was going on. Apparently from your story, that rude young man was you.Well many were hurt and angered by your actions. So I exacted a sense of justice. If you wanted to see what was going on so badly to act the way you did I thought it only proper to show you up front, first hand. I threw that pie in your face. And let me tell you I would do it again if you acted the same way.I see that you are claiming to have suffered from “Arrested Development” for many years afterwards. What I should have done was had you arrested then; then you would have really suffered from being “Arrested”. Have you ever thought just once about the harm you did to those people you shoved aside so rudely? Have you ever apologized to them? How about taking an ad out in our Southern Standard and apologize to those people you hurt and injured by your actions? You were not the only one hurt that day. One of those hurt was my wife. You pushed her to the ground and she injured her knee badly. She ended up having surgery on it. How selfish of you to forget the pain and horror of your actions that day. Shame on you. Mr. Page; do the Biblical thing and ask them for forgiveness or does the Bible not apply to those you hurt and injured that day? I guess it only applies to you when convenient. Shameful, oh so shameful. Darrell
January 8, 2009 11:36 AM
My insightful, gracious and deeply humble response.
WatchingHISstory said...
Darrell, you are desperately lying!But let me say this, if you were the pie thrower I forgive you and you should know that you are an instrument to develop me as His servant. What you meant for evil (public assault on an under aged child - never to be justified regardless of my actions) has turned into good. I love you dearly and pray for your best from God.
January 8, 2009 11:48 AM
WatchingHISstory said...
Darrell, my friend What side of the courthouse did the event take place? what side of the crowd was I standing?What was the flavor of the pie? What kind of material was the pie plate? Was it cloudy that day?What outstanding thing that made the day around the courthouse interesting?
Mr. Page: My name is Darrell. I was the man that threw that pie in your face back those many years ago. I have read your "version" of that incident. Now please let me tell all about what really happened.We were on the town square celebrating the history of our town. Several of our town officials had volunteered to have pies thrown in their face to raise money for abused and orphaned children. It was hot and many people had lined up with money in their hands. All of sudden this young teen rudely pushed himself into that line and brutally shoved people aside to see what was going on. Apparently from your story, that rude young man was you.Well many were hurt and angered by your actions. So I exacted a sense of justice. If you wanted to see what was going on so badly to act the way you did I thought it only proper to show you up front, first hand. I threw that pie in your face. And let me tell you I would do it again if you acted the same way.I see that you are claiming to have suffered from “Arrested Development” for many years afterwards. What I should have done was had you arrested then; then you would have really suffered from being “Arrested”. Have you ever thought just once about the harm you did to those people you shoved aside so rudely? Have you ever apologized to them? How about taking an ad out in our Southern Standard and apologize to those people you hurt and injured by your actions? You were not the only one hurt that day. One of those hurt was my wife. You pushed her to the ground and she injured her knee badly. She ended up having surgery on it. How selfish of you to forget the pain and horror of your actions that day. Shame on you. Mr. Page; do the Biblical thing and ask them for forgiveness or does the Bible not apply to those you hurt and injured that day? I guess it only applies to you when convenient. Shameful, oh so shameful. Darrell
January 8, 2009 11:36 AM
My insightful, gracious and deeply humble response.
WatchingHISstory said...
Darrell, you are desperately lying!But let me say this, if you were the pie thrower I forgive you and you should know that you are an instrument to develop me as His servant. What you meant for evil (public assault on an under aged child - never to be justified regardless of my actions) has turned into good. I love you dearly and pray for your best from God.
January 8, 2009 11:48 AM
WatchingHISstory said...
Darrell, my friend What side of the courthouse did the event take place? what side of the crowd was I standing?What was the flavor of the pie? What kind of material was the pie plate? Was it cloudy that day?What outstanding thing that made the day around the courthouse interesting?
What was the closest public school to the courthouse? What was the closest church? Where was the Southern Standard Office? What local Radio station was nearby? What was the name of the funeral home near by? What was the name of the Auto dealership next to the courthouse. All these are things you would know. Naturally I have inserted trick questions and you would know which ones are tricks!
January 8, 2009 12:02 PM
Ain't I sharp? Tell me on the poll in the margin.
January 8, 2009 12:02 PM
Ain't I sharp? Tell me on the poll in the margin.
edit to add:
Pie Thrower said...
Dear Mr. Page: You and I both know I am not a female. I am not sure where you are coming from with all those other names and stuff, but you are STILL the same rude young man that hurt and injured several people many years ago and you refuse to apologize. I am almost 74 years old and I have little patience with you as I did back in McMinnville. I should have turned you over my knee and spanked your behind good. I cannot believe you are still as rude as you were back then. My dear Hilda wants to do more to you because of the way you hurt her. But it would not do any good, she is almost blind and is confined to a wheelchair. After I hit you with the pie you took off like a scalded dog. The way you scrambled off was got folks laughing at you. You can tell me on this blog that you forgive me but what about my dear Hilda? And the other people. You know very well you hurt people that day. I know my days are short before I join my dear Savior and I don't think I will hear, read or see you apologize to those folks. I was foolish thinking you would. This will be my last post to you on this subject. My sweet grandson, Sidney has been so kind to type all this for me. He has to be back to college and finish his degree in the seminary. He leaves in the morning. I am still amazed at all this high tech computer stuff. Never knew they had such gadgets. I really don't know why you are so mean. Maybe someday the blinders will really come off your eyes. Good bye Mr. Page.
January 8, 2009 8:03 PM
Dear Mr. Page: You and I both know I am not a female. I am not sure where you are coming from with all those other names and stuff, but you are STILL the same rude young man that hurt and injured several people many years ago and you refuse to apologize. I am almost 74 years old and I have little patience with you as I did back in McMinnville. I should have turned you over my knee and spanked your behind good. I cannot believe you are still as rude as you were back then. My dear Hilda wants to do more to you because of the way you hurt her. But it would not do any good, she is almost blind and is confined to a wheelchair. After I hit you with the pie you took off like a scalded dog. The way you scrambled off was got folks laughing at you. You can tell me on this blog that you forgive me but what about my dear Hilda? And the other people. You know very well you hurt people that day. I know my days are short before I join my dear Savior and I don't think I will hear, read or see you apologize to those folks. I was foolish thinking you would. This will be my last post to you on this subject. My sweet grandson, Sidney has been so kind to type all this for me. He has to be back to college and finish his degree in the seminary. He leaves in the morning. I am still amazed at all this high tech computer stuff. Never knew they had such gadgets. I really don't know why you are so mean. Maybe someday the blinders will really come off your eyes. Good bye Mr. Page.
January 8, 2009 8:03 PM
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