March 30, 2008

Watching The Watcher

Watching the watcher said...You know, you may just be right. About everything. I am not sure you are going about things the right way, though. I also don't get what you hope to accomplish.January 19, 2008 10:11 AM

Watching the watcher said...You say "NASS," (New Bellevue Baptist Church Open Forum) it is about integrity of Church leadership", pointing back to Adrian Rogers. Yet the front page of your blog says "The intent of this blog is not to impugn the character or integrity of Dr Rogers". So which is it? Are your true colors showing through? Admit it, this is really all just about your personal dislike for Rogers, the rest is just blowing "spiritual" smoke, isn't it? January 19, 2008 7:43 PM

I replied. No I am not angry with Dr Rogers, God is. I'm just his messenger and I know how angry God is. I did feel that there was a line I was stepping over in my post. Is there a correlation between one's theology and character? Can there be a connection to Dr Rogers' bad theology that would effect his priorities and cause him to be so busy in one area and neglect another? You tell me. January 20, 2008 5:17 AM

Watching the watcher said...I didn't say you were angry with Dr. Rogers. I said you dislike him and that personal dislike looks like a motive for what you are saying. Yes, there can be a connection between a person's theology and their character/integrity, but if that's what you believe is the case with Rogers you should remove the statement on the front page of your blog. January 20, 2008 5:30 PM

My intentions on this blog is not to impugn the character or integrity of Dr Rogers but his theology. At least that's what I thought I was doing until Watching the Watcher's comments.To impugn even Dr Rogers' theology is a rarity. No one dares to do that but a few. His celebrity and legacy is tremendous. Perhaps it could be said that he was the best of men in so many ways.Let's not forget that Jesus said that there are none good but one. Paul said, let God be found true and every man a liar and there is none righteous no not one. So Dr Rogers was not good. He was an unrighteous liar. So are we all!We are all, without exception, either fools or knaves. The best of us fall short of pleasing God. Let us use this as our base and no one sits atop a pedestal. No one! Either we are foolishly lacking in judgement and prudence or we are tricky and deceitful.
We can't call anyone 'raca', stupid and worthless, utterly vilified. Yet neither can we call anyone good because only our Lord is good. God alone is true and we are liars.
I did not dislike Dr Rogers. However his celebrated status never impressed me one way or the other. I wasn't taught in all my upbringing to celebrate some one's status. Simple poor country people don't do that. That is a life that so few people seem to understand anymore. "Name droppers" were silly "city slickers" and "they best stay away from us"!

Perhaps it could be said of me that I did not like Dr Rogers. I went to a Wednesday night dinner at Bellevue with a friend and his family maybe six or seven years ago. Over dinner he ask me the difference between Baptist and Pentecostals and I struggled to give him a good answer.
Adrian Rogers spoke that evening about how Bellevue could be a bigger church. It was an emergent sermon on church growth. He said that Bellevue had baptized almost 900 people the last year. A lady in the audience heard the number that had been baptized and she began clapping spontaneously. Her lone clapping was interrupted by Rogers who put up his palms in a gesture to stop. "Now you listen to what I was saying" he said to her. His point was that while Bellevue had baptized nearly 900 they could be baptizing even more!
Astounding vision! However she was not following his train of thought. I was embarrassed for her and knew that she would go home that night feeling bad.
When I got in the car with my friend I immediately told him that Dr Rogers "goofed up tonight". I told him that would not have happened in a Pentecostal church. I had been in hundreds of services that spontaneous applause interrupted the sermon and many times the sermon would not get finished. I knew that the least that Dr Rogers could have done for the lady was let her clap and pause for others to join her, but let her clap and not embarrass her.
My opinion was that his ego was in his sermon and her feelings mattered little to him. "Such is the price one pays for attending a big church." "Order must prevail."
If I didn't like him that would be the reason. Moses struck the rock rather than speak to it and it cost him the journey into the promise land. Is it right for one whole life to be measured by one isolated incidence? This incidence will not leave me.
That lone clapper haunts me and I cry for the little people lost in the crowd. I mean it, I weep as I type. Yes, If I didn't like him that would be the reason. But that is not the reason I have a blog and no I am not blowing spiritual smoke! I have heard from God and He is angry with Adrian Rogers. His anger is not at all like human anger. His wrath is terrible and if you are going to be a minister you need to know what he thinks of your self-determination.
If Adrian Rogers was wrong while 99% of the people thought he was right, where do you think you stand with God, Mr Big Shot pastor? Live your celebrated status and enjoy it while it last but you too will face the angry God Dr Roger faces! Your theology has to be correct. It has to be Holy Spirit directed. He must get the credit for every convert and you stay in the shadows.

Watching the Watcher, the statement comes down. Dr Rogers was no fool, he was a deceiver and a liar.


Grace Baptist Church, Somerset, KY said...

Charles, on your "Watching His Story" site, you have, in the left column, a picture of an old church -- Indian Creek Baptist. Where is that church located?

WatchingHISstory said...

Indian Creek district on Caney Fork River, Dekalb Co. Tennessee near Smithville, Tennessee

Grace Baptist Church, Somerset, KY said...

Thanks . . . it looks a lot like the original building for Indian Creek Baptist in Dekalb Co, Stone Mountain, GA. I was pastor there from 1983-1991. Quite amazing the similarities . . . but I suppose they were basic simple buildings in those days and would tend to look alike. It is funny however that they have the same name and the same name of county.

dogpreacher said...


While I agree with you on many aspects concerning Rogers (as well as others...Grahams, etc.), if you are telling us that you have heard (audibly/personal revelation aside from scripture) from God concerning Rogers, then I would have to label you the same as you have labeled him...a liar.

Do I believe that you could study scripture and find more than adequate reasoning for these rebukes?...YES, so why does God need to be redundant (and that "up close & personal" with you?) His word is sufficient!

WatchingHISstory said...

Thanks for reading my blog and for the comment. God's Word is sufficient and He is not redundant.
The author is up close and personal with me. He knows my voice and I know His.
But I receive the part of your admonition that I need to study Scripture and find support for my rebukes. Pray for me that I will achieve that. Thanks


Watching the Watcher said...

Interesting post.

I wonder if perhaps Adrian Rogers interrupted the woman's applause not to simply because he wished to continue his message, as you assume. From your description of the event, and what I heard him say on other occasions, it seems likely he was trying to point out while 900 baptisms may sound like a lot, it was actually a pretty small number for a church the size of Bellevue (and thus people shouldn't be too quick to applaud and congratulate themselves on their number of baptisms). That is, if all the members were being active witnesses for Christ as they should be, perhaps many more would have heard the gospel through Bellevue members, been born of God's Spirit, and come to Bellevue for baptism.

My point is that perhaps Adrian Rogers was right to silence her applause because he felt that, rather than 900 baptisms being a point of pride for the church, they should have been ashamed that the numbers were so low relative to the number of Bellevue members, who should all be spreading the gospel and bearing fruit.

WatchingHISstory said...

I was there, it was a sermon right out of Fuller Theological Church growth text books. The whole event illustrated mass movements evangelism at the expense of the individual experience.

AR said one thing and she said the opposite. She expressed joy that she was one of the "baptized" A large Church could not be built on one lone woman's joy! (insult the Holy spirit with that!)

Evangelism has to be a "Karl Marx" type mass movement of "people groups" "nations". This is a smack in the Lord's face. It is a flat out denial of His sovereignty and a product of human achievement.

Adrian Rogers goofed outrageously that night and I alone saw it!